3.Sentencing Argument — Defense Request for 20 Years
136 linesA F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N
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THE COURT: All right. Continuing with the sentencing of Keith Raniere, and Counsel and the defendant are all present.
So at this time, the Court will consider, as I have calculated the sentencing range, I am now going to turn to fact that are outlined in 18 United States Code Section 3553(a). Under Section 3553(a) I must consider several factors in imposing the sentence, including the nature and circumstances of the offense, the defendant's history and characteristics, the need for the sentence to reflect the seriousness of the offense, promote respect for the law and to provide just punishment for the offense, the need for the sentence to afford adequate deterrence, and the need to protect the public.
And in connection with that obligation, I will hear from the parties and then I will hear from the defendant, if he wishes to make a statement. I will start with the defense.
You may go ahead.
MR. AGNIFILO: Thank you, Your Honor. May it please the Court. Members of the Government and everyone who has come to court today.
I read each -- I'm going to stand over here so I can see Your Honor more clearly.
THE COURT: Yes, just move the microphone.
MR. AGNIFILO: Thank you.
THE COURT: Thank you.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes, thank you.
I read every letter that every person submitted, both from the prosecution and the letters that we submitted in Keith Raniere's behalf. I listened very, very closely to the people who spoke very powerfully this morning and this early afternoon. And I'm trying to find the words and the themes that I think could possibly, even at this late hour, reach Your Honor and convince Your Honor somehow not to sentence Keith Raniere to a life sentence.
I am very mindful of the amount of hurt and deep pain that is expressed by people in the letters and as they spoke to the Court earlier today. And I've been trying to find a way to describe it, to explain it, and I think if one reads all of the letters, well over 100 letters on both sides, considerably more than that, in fact, and if one considers the trial testimony, the first thing one sees, I submit, is that this was a community once upon a time. That once upon a time there was a community in Clifton Park and the surrounding areas that many, many people loved, believed in, and believed was doing good. And I think that is the first step in the analysis that I would like to try and ask the Court to take with me in understanding some of the very powerful statements that were made here today.
People loved NXIVM. Mark Vicente when he testified went on and on about he loved NXIVM. So many of the different people who testified at trial, some of whom are here today, testified they could have done other things in their lives, but they chose to forego those other things and they chose to join this community in Albany under the tutelage, the leadership, the vanguardship of Keith Raniere, because they believed in it and they loved it and they trusted him, Judge. That is such an important part of this whole analysis. They trusted Keith Raniere. They looked up to Keith Raniere. And they were absolutely sure that Keith Raniere had their best interest at heart.
In trying to find the right word, because sometimes the right word can help with the analysis, I thought long and hard and I thought of a word being the perfect word, in my opinion, the word, if you believe the Oxford English Dictionary, it was the word that was first used in year 1275 and the word is "betray." And the original meaning, the definition of the word "betray," is to deliver more people to the enemy by treachery, the meaning of the word "betray." And I think it's a useful way to analyze some of the things that happened in this case.
First, your people. This is very close community. They were all together. They believed they were all united in interests. They believed they were all united in interests doing something truly special, doing something that they generally thought was advancing the cause of humanity. This is not a group of ne'er-do-wells looking to sort of just self-aggrandize and do thinks that don't have important ends in and of themselves, it's the exact opposite, and NXIVM attracted terrific people.
I think it was Toni Natalie earlier today who said that Keith surrounded himself with good people, and that just seemed to actually be the case. There's no question about it. I can say that the people that I've met, some of whom testified at the trial, Judge, some of whom spoke this morning to Your Honor, I thought were outstanding people. I thought they were loving, wonderful, sweet, good people, each and every one of them. I haven't met a bad person yet. And these were good people who came here for the best of reasons, for the best of reasons and they sacrificed much to be in this community. And what has happened is they have reached the conclusion that Keith Raniere betrayed them.
Now, I think it's very important that we stop for a second and take note of all the things they didn't say. No one says, because it could not be validly said, that Keith Raniere was cruel to them at the time. No one said at the time, I knew that this is -- he was being mean to me. He was being abusive to me at the time. He was doing things that were mean-spirited to hurt me at that time. What they all say was something very, very different and it's only really understandable through the lens of betrayal. What they're saying is, I believe now, I believe now, that he was abusing me then. I believe now that he was cruel to me then. I believe now his intentions were bad then. That's a very different thing, Judge. A very different thing, because that is something that can be influenced. And I know everybody seems to be waiting for me or Mr. Raniere when he addresses Your Honor to say, I had bad intent all the time. The whole while, I was abusing everybody, I had bad intentions. I wanted to hurt them. He's never going to say it. He's never going to say it, because he doesn't believe it. He doesn't believe it, Judge. As he sits here today, he doesn't believe it.
Do I think having done this for as long as I have that maybe his best shot at avoiding a life sentence is for him to say it? Yeah. Maybe that's the best thing to say, that maybe Your Honor doesn't give him a life sentence. But it just wouldn't be true from his perspective. And we are sentencing him based on his perspective --
THE COURT: No. We are not sentencing him on a perspective. We are sentencing him -- I am going to sentence him on his behavior.
MR. AGNIFILO: I agree.
THE COURT: On his illegal behavior, which cannot be justified taking, for instance, Camila who, for some reason, was convinced that she should not testify at the trial by a lawyer who convinced her it was in her interest not to make herself available, which is a whole other issue.
But had she testified, it would have taken the jury ten minutes to convict him, because what he did to her, and she is totally believable, is at the behest of her father who brought her to Albany from Mexico, she was groomed from age 13 to age 15, and then she was seduced by Mr. Raniere and kept in an apartment and used for his sexual pleasure. That is the fact. That is not imagination, that is not a perception, that's a problem for your client. That is what he did.
MR. AGNIFILO: Judge, I understand.
THE COURT: So we are not here to discuss how he felt or how it seemed. We are here to discuss how should he be punished for what he did.
MR. AGNIFILO: I don't --
THE COURT: So let's get past that.
MR. AGNIFILO: I agree wholeheartedly.
THE COURT: Okay? The jury ruled. It was the jury's decision.
MR. AGNIFILO: I understand.
THE COURT: I am just here to enforce the jury's will. So let's move on.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yeah.
There's one I think is important to point out, Camila wasn't available to us either after she got a lawyer. So it was not --
THE COURT: Didn't you recommend the lawyer to her?
MR. AGNIFILO: We gave her a list of lawyers, and she didn't like the first two and she liked the last one. And that's what happened, Judge. And that's --
THE COURT: And how was that lawyer compensated; do you know?
MR. AGNIFILO: I -- I don't know. It was -- it was said in -- in her -- she said in her written statement how she believed the lawyer was compensated.
THE COURT: Which was?
MR. AGNIFILO: Judge, I had nothing to do with this.
THE COURT: Well, I am just saying -- I am asking the question. I am not saying you did that. I am just saying he was compensated, according to her, by this --
MR. AGNIFILO: Yeah.
THE COURT: -- $13.8 million --
MR. AGNIFILO: Right.
THE COURT: -- irrevocable trust created by Clare Bronfman. That is the impression that the Court has.
MR. AGNIFILO: I think that's probably right.
THE COURT: Yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: I think that's probably right.
But if -- if -- I mean, I'm the only one standing here, and what my moral and legal obligation is, if someone wants a lawyer, to give them a number of names. That's what I did. And she didn't like two, and she did like one, and that was the last time we ever spoke to her.
THE COURT: I see.
MR. AGNIFILO: And -- and, Judge, I can also add, if there was a problem with any of this, which there isn't, because I don't do the wrong thing, and I didn't do the wrong thing here --
THE COURT: I am just telling you that if -- it has a certain sense, it creates a certain sense that someone who clearly was so terribly wronged by this man, decided not to speak up at the time, that raises issues.
MR. AGNIFILO: And if there --
THE COURT: And that is separate and apart from this trial.
The point I am making, the principal point here, she came here and validated what this -- what the prosecution provided to the jury, and the jury found by -- beyond a reasonable doubt happened to her.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right.
THE COURT: All right?
So it is about what happened to her. So I do not want to talk about theory. I have heard enough about Mr. Raniere's theories. I am talking about the facts.
MR. AGNIFILO: Judge --
THE COURT: Let's get down to the facts.
MR. AGNIFILO: But -- but --
THE COURT: He says he is innocent. You are his lawyer, you said he is innocent on his behalf, and he may say it when he speaks, if he does.
Let's move on.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. I'm -- I'm talking about intent, and so I'm not -- I'm not trying to not talk about it --
THE COURT: How is it -- excuse me. Pardon me.
What about intent -- what do you think the intent is if you have a 13-year-old girl and a 43-year-old man and two years -- and that girl is being spoken to and a development of a relationship is occurring, and then two years later, she is having sex at age 15 with a 45-year-old man?
MR. AGNIFILO: Well, Judge, first -- first of all --
THE COURT: I am just wondering what do think the intent is of the 45-year-old man?
I was once a 45-year-old man.
MR. AGNIFILO: So was I.
THE COURT: And now I am a 72-year-old man.
MR. AGNIFILO: Judge --
THE COURT: And I -- and I have a pretty good sense of these things because like I have been around the block. So do not treat me, this Court, as if it is not the intent to do what he did. It was not a mistake. He kept doing it. Please.
MR. AGNIFILO: Judge, in terms of the --
THE COURT: Why don't you talk about the factors?
MR. AGNIFILO: Judge --
THE COURT: I am interested in the factors.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
THE COURT: I am interested in the factors. I am not interested in your explication of whether he intended to have sex with this woman.
MR. AGNIFILO: Judge, I -- first of all --
THE COURT: You are not in front of a jury, you are in front of the Judge now on the sentencing.
MR. AGNIFILO: I know.
THE COURT: I am not going to tolerate spending time as to what his intent was when he seduced a 15-year-old girl. We are not going there. It is just -- it is an insult of the intelligence of anyone who listens. And I just want you to understand, I am not tolerating it.
So go on.
MR. AGNIFILO: The point I'm trying to make, Judge, is he did a lot of good things in his life. That's a heartland 3553 factor. He did a lot of good things to the curriculum. I'm sure Your Honor read all of the letters we submitted from people who still support him and believed in what he is doing. And they are not flying monkeys. They're nice people. They're good people, just like the people who have decided to leave NXIVM and have a different view. They're all nice people. They're all people who wanted to improve themselves and to improve humanity. That's who they all are, including the people who wrote those letters saying that all the wonderful things that he did, all of the wonderful things he did with the community.
The Tourettes project, we have letters on that, Judge. We have letters from people who had Tourettes, and who no longer suffer from the -- from the effects of Tourettes, and they credit the -- Keith Raniere and Nancy's work in that regard. And that's what they say. They wrote these letters to the Court, and I think that's a very important factor.
Another factor, and we go through this in our sentencing memorandum, is the Mexican Peace Initiative. The Mexican Peace Initiative, we have letters from certain people who lived in Mexico who have first-hand information about the work that Keith Raniere and others did to try and stop the kidnappings in Mexico, including someone who lived in a small, run-down poor community in Mexico for a period of 18 months and tried to show this small town in Mexico that they could sort of organize a community and take care of each other and live together and make their lives better. And this was all inspired by Keith Raniere.
And my point, Judge, and I think it's an important point, I think it's a very important point just what we had this morning, is that people believed in this work. They believed in him, and now they feel betrayed. And now they look back at what happened back then through a different lens, and I don't think it's accurate, is my point. I don't want to -- I'm not going to get into the details. I don't know that every statement that was made this morning to Your Honor was factually correct. I don't think they all were. And so we don't need to dissect each one, because the important thing is this is how these people feel.
But my point is they don't feel this because Mr. Raniere was cruel to them at the time. They view him as having been cruel now. That's what --
THE COURT: Well, that is not entirely accurate. It may be that some of what they say is erroneous, it may be insincere, it may be excessive, or it may be untrue.
But what about the situation where your client used the financial resources of a multimillionaire to go after in litigation many people who had no resources in order to destroy their reputation, to have them declare bankruptcy, to have them put in jail because they would not go along with his approach to the way the world should work, the way NXIVM should work, the way these programs should work? And he and Ms. Bronfman chased them down wherever they were, in the State of Washington, in Mexico, or wherever they happened to be -- or Florida. According to these victims they were being, not only harassed, they were being further victimized because of the fact that they did not continue to be interested in the program. That was then. That is not now. Some of it may be continuing. But what about that?
MR. AGNIFILO: I -- I --
THE COURT: He was using -- according to them, and clearly she was in a position, Ms. Bronfman, was in a position to provide the resources to do it, he was using those tools, the use of lawyers, and the use of proceedings to victimize people who felt at the time, they realized or believed, that they were being victimized, you know, what about that?
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
THE COURT: He didn't just say to these people, You know, I did my best with you. I tried to help you. Go with God. He did not do that. What he did was he went after them.
MR. AGNIFILO: I have a response.
THE COURT: Yeah, I am waiting.
MR. AGNIFILO: So in May of 2017, and I don't need to name names, because I named them in my sentencing memorandum --
THE COURT: You can name names.
MR. AGNIFILO: Sarah Edmondson and two other people broke into the NXIVM computer from Vancouver. We have the data. We have the information. And, apparently, Clare Bronfman went to Vancouver and tried to bring a criminal investigation for computer tampering.
THE COURT: Well, do you mean --
MR. AGNIFILO: -- because there was computer tampering.
THE COURT: -- something like what was arranged for Daniela to create the malware to break into Edgar Bronfman's computer? That kind of --
MR. AGNIFILO: No.
THE COURT: -- that kind of behavior? Is that the same idea?
MR. AGNIFILO: No, it's not the same idea.
I think the idea was that Sarah didn't want her friends or certain people she cared about to stay in NXIVM, and so she went into the computer and she eliminated -- she changed the computer files so that their credit cards wouldn't be billed. I mean, it's very specific information, you know. And at the end of the day, Vancouver did or did not, you know, bring an investigation and certainly didn't bring any charges. So that's what happened with that.
What happened with the information that was NXIVM's information that people got when they took the courses is it was published on a website, and that might be a violation of intellectual property rights. And there was a long litigation, we discussed it at the trial at length, and that was something that happened because they reasonably believed -- lawyers, with good lawyers -- and one thing that I want to add that Kristin Keeffe in her letter to Your Honor mentioned someone named Steve Coffey. Steve Coffey was a lawyer, an independent lawyer, highly regarded lawyer at a law firm in Albany, former, I think, Albany County prosecutor and he made a lot of these decisions.
I mean, this is not, you know, Clare on her own or Keith on his own. Do I think personally that they would have benefitted by adult lawyer supervision at the time? Yeah, I do. I think they could have really benefitted from adult lawyer supervision. And say, You know what? You guys are burning a lot midnight oil over a lot of stuff that doesn't matter, and you're creating a lot of problems.
THE COURT: And what the client does -- pardon me, if I exercise my independent judgment here -- what a client does if a lawyer says that and the client just wants to harass and attack and has the resources to do it, that lawyer -- that client goes and finds a lawyer who will do it, because there's got to be a lawyer out there who is willing to take the money, take the fee, and will do what the client wants and not exercise independent judgment. That's just the way of the world. So, you know, I think it's naïve to say that adult lawyer supervision might prevail. Not if you are a -- not if you're someone with a lot of money and you are looking to harass somebody with legal process, which may or may not be justified. Some of it may be justified. I am not saying it is not or it is. But it is pretty hard for some lawyers to turn down a retainer from a multimillionaire, someone with deep pockets who wants to go after somebody because he or she feels he has been wronged or he wants to get back at them.
We could discuss this all day. So let's go on.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
THE COURT: So the next issue.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes, Judge.
I think part of the reason that happened is I think this community felt like it was being attacked. And what we -- I think we saw in some of the trial evidence is we saw Keith and Kristin for a while because we had their e-mails and Keith and Clare for a while because we have some of their e-mails; what appears to be reasonably believing that people are trying to undo them. You now, there might be an aspect of paranoia to it. There might be. I mean, some of that I felt was showcased in the evidence.
There were times when Keith thought people were following him or outside his house or whatnot. So, you know, yes, I think they were looking to protect themselves. Do I think they brought too much litigation? Absolutely. But, you know, here we are all these years later. So I don't know that that, you know, is really -- one of the factors I think is the most important for sentencing.
What I think is the most important for sentencing, Judge, which is why I started with it, is a lot of people have very strong feelings, and they come here and they're hurt. This case has so much heartbreak, in my opinion, heartbreak, because so many people -- I mean, I mentioned Mark Vicente, I'll mention him again. He's hurt. On that video statement, he's hurt. He doesn't know what to do. He says as much. I don't know what I'm going to do with my life now. That's sad, Judge, and it's sad that they feel that way.
But I think it's important that the first step in betrayal, the first step in betrayal is that there was this closeness. There was this love, and I thought the person who put it the most eloquently was Adriana in something she said this morning. She said -- she started by talking to Keith, and she said, There's a love that was all around you, and you never touched. Those were her words, Judge. And she got it perfectly. And what she's saying is, We loved you. We loved you. We trusted you. We believed in you, and you betrayed us. So why did you betray us? Why did you betray us? What happened? And the problem as -- as Your Honor started to point out is -- and this is something that I think that Barbara Bouchey said and Toni Natalie said and other people have said it, he was in love with some of these women. He was in love with them. I think Toni Natalie said, He doesn't know how to let go. Those are her words. I'm not her. You don't know how to let go. He's not trying to hurt someone -- he's not, Judge. He's not trying to hurt someone.
And, Judge, I can see that you disagree with me. I know --
THE COURT: All I am saying to you is that love does not result in any sense of responsibility for the offspring or an offspring that he has, that he has no responsibility. I am not here to question feelings. I am here to question, and the jury was there to decide, whether he has broken the law.
So I think we can talk about how Vicente feels and how Adriana feels and so forth, and we should put that aside for the sake of sentencing. What we need for this sentencing is to address what he did to other human beings with the skills that he obviously had. All right?
You don't have to be the smartest man in the world to manipulate and to harm other people. And that is really what we are talking about here. What did he do? What did he do to hurt people and violate the law in the process? That is really what we are here for.
I do not want to know about his psychiatric history, particularly. He has not provided us with anything on it. You have not asked to -- have not provided us with a workup about his problems, whatever they may be. And so I am not going to consider those kinds of issues because they are not in front of me.
What is in front of me is all these counts of -- where the jury found him guilty of violating the law. And so, you know, let's go back to what I have to consider. All right?
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THE COURT: I'm supposed to consider his history and characteristics, the need for the sentence to reflect the seriousness of the offenses, to promote respect for the law, and to provide just punishment for the offenses, and the need to sentence the sentence to afford adequate deterrence, and the need to protect the public, which is very important here the need to protect the public, among other things. That's really where I am.
And I can differentiate, and do differentiate, between how people are hurt emotionally by the way they are treated, and how they are hurt by wrongdoing. We're here about wrongdoing, not so much about how they feel ten years later about how they were treated. Although, it's pretty clear that he took advantage of people sexually and that some of it, some of what he did was illegal because the jury said so that was their decision.
MR. AGNIFILO: I'm not going to quarrel with the jury verdict, and I don't. The jury has spoken. And your Honor is absolutely correct, your Honor's job, what we're all here to do is give a sentence based on the jury's verdict.
And my point in talking about intent and the circumstances of the offense certainly goes to a 3553 factor because it's the nature and circumstances of the offense. And so that's why I'm discussing that.
THE COURT: You haven't answered my question about Camila. Let's cut to the chase here. You don't start having an affair with a 15-year-old girl when you're a 45-year-old man, plus total control, financial control, control over her visa, control over her father who is still writing letters in support of the defendant today, I have one in my file here. When is that appropriate? I'm just curious.
MR. AGNIFILO: As your Honor knows, he wasn't charged with or convicted of having sex with Camila. He was charged and convicted of the photographs.
And if your Honor remembers my trial defense, I didn't really dispute the photographs all that much. The way I disputed them is they were never shown to anybody and the jury shouldn't consider them as either child pornography or as a racketeering predicate because they were photographs that were taken and then for the rest of time they just stayed on a device, they never got sent anywhere, never got shown anywhere.
So that's how I dealt with the photographs at the trial. I didn't say anything one way or another about them. I didn't say at the trial anything one way or another about Camila at 15 years old.
THE COURT: You were talking about intent, I'm just wondering how that works into your theory of intent here.
MR. AGNIFILO: I absolutely admit that Camila is in a different category than other people in the case. There is no question, there is no question. And there is no doubt, and I never said anything to the contrary, and I don't say that now.
THE COURT: Go on.
MR. AGNIFILO: What I think your Honor can glean from all this, and I don't know if it cuts for or against them but I'll say it because it's the truth, he's in a 13-year relationship with her, 12-year relationship with her. I don't if know that makes it better or worse, but those are the facts. And my point, and it's not a point that I think a psychological report, I thought that some of people who spoke this morning spoke absolutely eloquently about it, he doesn't how to leave people.
THE COURT: He doesn't know what?
MR. AGNIFILO: Leave, leave women. Toni Natalie said, he doesn't know how to let go.
THE COURT: It's hard to leave, get people to leave, if you're keeping all this material, this collateral. If you arranged to collect, true and maybe not true, information and photographs about these people so that they feel their constraint to stay. He doesn't know how to leave; he knows how to keep people from leaving, that's his skill. That's a skill.
So when you start talking about he doesn't know how to leave people, even if they wanted to leave they couldn't leave, according to what we were told here today and during the trial.
MR. AGNIFILO: That is certainly a big part of what people have said today.
THE COURT: It's what they said during the trial.
MR. AGNIFILO: And during the trial both, no question.
THE COURT: The jury credited that.
MR. AGNIFILO: Judge, I'm agreeing, I don't disagree with you.
THE COURT: The fact that he doesn't feel -- he doesn't know how to leave people. I don't understand where that fits in this whole, the whole theory of his culpability.
MR. AGNIFILO: The theory of the culpability is he's not trying to hurt them at the time. He's not. That's the theory.
THE COURT: At this time. What about at that time?
MR. AGNIFILO: No, at that time. He wasn't trying to hurt any of the people who spoke here this morning.
THE COURT: Why -- it's not trying to hurt someone by controlling their ability to function and have the right to come and to go and to walk out and to stay because you've got this control over them with all this data about them?
MR. AGNIFILO: Judge --
THE COURT: That's not a consideration? That was then.
MR. AGNIFILO: Judge, it's a consideration but the trial evidence was very clear, when someone wanted to leave, they left. We got that out of Lauren Salzman's testimony. We put in text messages of her and another person. The person wanted to leave. And they ended up saying, 'I love you. I'll miss you too.'
THE COURT: All right. I'm going to let the Government have something to say. Finish up.
MR. AGNIFILO: Two things I want to say. Kristin mentioned that she spoken to me about possibly getting some child support, let me give the Court some background.
THE COURT: How old is this child?
MR. AGNIFILO: Fourteen.
THE COURT: Never had child support I take it?
MR. AGNIFILO: Well, Kristin left. And for a while I think Mr. Raniere was trying to have their rent paid while living until Florida.
THE COURT: I see. All right. Go ahead.
MR. AGNIFILO: So in the spring I started getting text messages from someone not identifying themselves. This person is on again/off again, I do want to talk to you, I'm not going to speak to you. She ends up speaking to me. It ends up being Kristin.
Kristin and I talked on the phone a number of times. She basically says that she feels that she's deserves child support. So I say, I think you probably deserve child support too. So I talk to Raniere about it, I'm not going to get into the details of that discussion.
But at some point I tell Kristin if we're going to talk about trial support you have to get a lawyer, I'm not going to talk about child support with you. If this is some sort of a negotiation, the only way it can work is if the Court orders some sort of money judgment. Then I don't know what the laws are regarding priority, I really have no idea. But if you want to try to be on record as being entitled to child support, have your lawyer contact the prosecutors and work it out. And basically that was the end of the discussion. I did discuss it with her, that's kind of where we left it.
I point out that Mr. Raniere has two children, one with Marianna, that was referred to this morning, and one with Kristin. I don't know what the future holds in terms of child support or available funds.
One of the things I told Kristin's lawyer is, if you remember from the trial, Judge, there is the Pam Cafritz' estate. I have no idea what is going on with that, there are lawyers handling that, who frankly I've never spoken to. I said, call them, they are in Albany or nearby.
THE COURT: She has a lawyer in Albany, right?
MR. AGNIFILO: Kristin does.
THE COURT: Yes. I'm sure the lawyer in Albany in lawyer --
MR. AGNIFILO: Will figure it out. So the crux of what I want to sum up on --
THE COURT: You carefully glossed over, because he's your client and you're not going to tell me about what your client said to you, which is fine, but the fact is, the child is 14 years old and there has been no child support, apparently, and why should this even be an issue if this is his child. I mean, I'm just --
MR. AGNIFILO: I agree with you.
THE COURT: -- I'm just a local guy here in Brooklyn. But you've got a 14-year-old child who has never been supported by his father who has been busy working the commodities markets for tens of millions of dollars and can't find it in his heart to send a few bucks to his child. Why should anyone look upon that person as someone who is worthy of respect?
MR. AGNIFILO: Because I think Kristin left, Kristin was hiding, and Kristin and Gaelyn were hiding from him. That's the answer. I'm not sure it makes it better or worse.
THE COURT: She spoke as to why she was hiding.
MR. AGNIFILO: That's the reason. So that's the --
THE COURT: No. The reason she was hiding was some other reason. She wasn't hiding because she felt she would be safe if he knew about where she was.
Let's move on to the sentencing because I'm having trouble dealing with your logic. Go ahead.
MR. AGNIFILO: I think I'm trying to make a couple of points clear. One, he didn't intend to hurt anybody. I know your Honor disagrees with me. And your Honor --
THE COURT: The jury decided he did.
MR. AGNIFILO: Judge, I know.
THE COURT: Then you've made your point. Next.
MR. AGNIFILO: Obviously he's never been in trouble with the law before. He's a 60-year-old man. And I'm asking the Court for a 20-year sentence. Ordinarily that would seem like an astronomical sentence for a 60-year-old man with a first arrest.
And there is one other point that I want to make, and I think it's an important one. At no time, nothing in the evidence, and this is an exhaustively investigated case where a tremendous amount of people come forward, no evidence of a single instance where someone said to Keith Raniere, 'I don't want to do this; I don't want you to hold my hand; I don't want you kissing me;' and he did it any way. None. That's the man we're going to sentence.
First arrest, 60-year-old man. I think a 20-year sentence is more than a sufficiently long sentence for this particular 60-year-old man.
One thing I want to end with, it's important in terms of placement. The Government in its sentencing memorandum took something out of context, I think it's very important, that they took out of context. Because what they said Mr. Raniere said was that, 'The Judge should know he's being watched.'
THE COURT: What is that?
MR. AGNIFILO: 'The Judge should know he's being watched.' In their sentencing memorandum they have him on a recorded phone call to someone saying, 'The Judge should know he's being watched.' But what his whole statement was, 'The Judge should know he's being watched by someone wise. Have you been speaking with Alan Dershowitz.'
It's just a very important distinction because without really understanding this he could be designated to someplace where he shouldn't be.
I know that -- one thing I also want to address, Judge, because it's come up I don't want to gloss over it. I know that your Honor got a very long letter from a number of people, I think on Friday. And the letter is discussing computer tampering. And they consulted with four experts, one of whom is a PhD in computers. And there has been a conclusion there is computer tampering.
Just to be clear, so the record actually says this, I have been asked many, many times to file that motion. I was asked by my client, I was asked by others. I studied this stuff, I think I understand it. And in my estimation, being the lawyer on the case, I did not think that it rose to the level of making a prosecutorial misconduct motion in the form of a Rule 33.
What I will tell your Honor is, I don't know what the future is going to hold, I'm still looking into it. I don't know if it's going to turn the corner and become something different than what it is. But I decided not to file the motion. My client wanted me to file the motion. And I made a decision not to file the motion.
And in making that decision I did a number of things. I consulted the Rules of Professional Responsibility, for one. I looked at my own sense of ethics and the fact that I would be in front of your Honor soon asking for 20-year sentence. And I thought that was the right thing to do, and I still think it's the right thing to do.
One of the reasons I didn't file the motion is because if more evidence of this comes to light, in the future I didn't want to basically take my one Rule 33 shot now. So I made the decision not to file the motion. That's why it came the way it did because I wouldn't file it.
So your Honor, in closing, I think a 20-year sentence is more than enough. It shows tremendous respect for the law. It is a very severe sentence for a 60-year-old man, for any person but for a 60-year-old man, that's my request Judge.