3.Daniela — Direct (Part 3)

DANIELA: Yes.

Did you find out yesterday what's up computer-wise from your key-logger? Additionally, whatever happened to the other accounts?

DANIELA: Yes.

It's an e-mail from me to Keith, with an attachment named out_log file dot txt.

It says: I am cleaning up the text file from Pam's computer for you. I am attaching it to you in its raw state if you'd like to give it a go. Seems Monkey has been using the big computer more. Pam must have forgotten to encourage Monkey to use the little one.

DANIELA: Yes. So it's kind of visually self-explanatory to a degree.

The next line it seems she's just clicking away. The next line I see, with some information, is not here. This is just a bunch of noise.

DANIELA: Daemon starting up.

I would imagine that's the initiation of the log. And these things are usually time stamped and date stamped.

DANIELA: That seems correct, yes.

The rest of the information on this file, except for the very bottom, seems to be a lot of just motions on the keyboard that are not actual typing. Could be mistakes, could be noise, or it could be someone just playing around with the keyboard, which is most likely what happened.

There is a little bit of typing by the end and it says: Hardware electrolog, electrologfreihofer, pamelarunner, www.my, and then a key stroke down. So that may be someone typing a domain name.

DANIELA: Yes. Then it continues: Themightyrunner, and the small imtheonlymonkey. I know that mightyrunner was her user name for her Gmail account, so maybe what's following is the password. And, again, it's imtheonlymonkey, then the another domain starts being typed www.f and then again -- key-loggers are not precise. Like the way everything is logged is very noisy. So that's why it needs to be cleaned up.

Then again, themightyrunner# delete at Gmail.com. Again, imtheonlymonkey, so that my might be a password because it's being repeated now three times after e-mail addresses. Then pamela cafritz, that's actually just typing, and again domain www.g-o-t-o-s-c-a, gotosca, command, some unintelligible, RECONDITAA ARMONIA.

And here there's a few more lines that I recognize as opera arias: CVISSI D"ARTE, LUCEVAN LE STELLE -- lyrics. She's looking for lyrics. There's tosca. Tosca again. Again, pamelarunner, I believe that was maybe Pam's e-mail address or one of her user names.

DANIELA: That's what it looks like, but then there's some actual typing.

So it seems like she's typing a letter and it says, after Pamela Runner: Tosca, how well you know the art of capturing women's hearts. Let her eyes be black once. Jealous? It may be misspelled. Yes, yes, I feel you, I commend you incessantly, Tosca. I know you would forgive me if you knew my grief.

So that may be just lyrics.

Your storming anger and your pulsing love.

Then, again, there's an attempt to -- or -- it could be an attempt. It could be a successful entry into the e-mail account kunterre@nycap.rr.com, which is Keith's e-mail address.

DANIELA: Yes, and the password Alex A1A again.

And then three times in a row, Keith, Keith, Keith -- with exclamation marks at the end -- I'm sorry.

DANIELA: Yes. And, again, it's not 100 percent accurate so sometimes it can be off, but when looking at a file, it's helpful if one imagines, like, live what is going on on the keyboard.

So when I'm reading this, I'm seeing what the person is doing on the keyboard. So you might mistype something. You type delete and you type it again. That's going to be recorded as one activity, each one, and that's why the file tends to be very noisy. It's not the final output. It's just recording each and every keystrokes.

Sometimes an application can kind of interact with the key log application in a negative way and it generates more noise than it needed. So, for example, and this is probably not the best example, but maybe the mouse motion creates part of a log so that it will be more noisy than actually it is just from the keystrokes and sometimes an application might create some additional noise. So not everything is necessarily 100 percent accurate so it's spliced.

DANIELA: Yes.

So it continues after Keith, Keith, Keith, with delete, delete, delete, I'm sorry. Thank you for your letter. I L-O -- delete, delete, delete, delete -- won't, sorry, won't -- many deletes -- wanted to send you -- many deletes. I hope -- no. Hope you are feeling B-R-Y, delete, T, delete E-T-T-E-R. Continues unintelligible.

Wanted you to know that. I think -- maybe misspelled. I'm thinking of you, your health, my P -- delete, delete, delete -- my part here. I'm sorry. I hope we can get you out of this one sooner rather than later. I apologize for all the pain I case -- maybe "cause" -- you on a daily basis.

DANIELA: Yes, and -- yes. Let's see. Literature here.

So this seems like a letter she's writing to Keith. It says: So you took it and ran with it? What about all the times I said I didn't want you to have those relationships. I hope you start feeling better soon. It -- question mark. What about all the times I expressed to you my opposition to the situation? What a -- delete -- what about when you ask me about starting a relationship with Camila and I said no -- delete -- question mark -- delete, delete -- you don't feel well and things are worse that I can imagine and, again -- delete strokes. Thank you for taking the time and your energy to write me. I keep the good part in my heart. More deletes. As usual, I'll choose to only keep the good part in my heart. I pro -- delete, -- I liked heart, for myself to recite very close to my heart. The other parts, I don't know what to do with them.

DANIELA: Yes. Yes. It continues and, again, there's another attempt on the top to enter that account.

Once beautiful. I want you to know. Delete. Don't care to have the conversation with you anymore. Forgive me. That paralyzed of the watercolor paints. I'm staying for three months so Pam can get stronger to what -- deletes -- have some time to -- delete -- less dependent and more stable. I'll -- delete -- be working on myself too. Three months is a -- maybe "long time" misspelled. Bunch of characters. I'm leaving doors opens. The door open to the possibility I might like life again. As per tonight, all I see is darkness, a dark and ugly cold night. Us, and I -- us get involved with the -- delete -- was that shelping (sic) you heal all, yes, struggle with myself. Just -- parentheses -- pointless. And parentheses, cold.

DANIELA: At the end, at the very end. They are -- so there's another attempt to access Keith's account.

Then there is later, pamelacafritz@gmail.

DANIELA: Yes. That's one.

There's also one on themightyrunner. That one, the one that's next to themightyrunner. Oh my one god. That looks to be a password. So those two are repeated. That looks to be a password.

DANIELA: Yes.

Now, change of subject. Key log info I sent contains a few passwords. I tried them on Gmail and Facebook with no success. Heads up, she typed your e-mail at nycap.rr.com, and the A, asterisk, asterisk, asterisk, A, password of yours several times. The rest of the info in the file is a letter for you she typed which I assume you've gotten, and a few Google searches for opera arias, perhaps looking for advice from fellow psycho girlfriend Tosca. Question mark. I cleaned up the file halfway not knowing whether you'd still want it or not. Let me know if you do.

DANIELA: Yes.

It says: BTW -- which stands for "by the way" -- WRT -- "with regard to" -- key log, is there any additional ones? You gave me one file. The, is at least one viable password change in that file. The new gmail account. Additionally, I changed my other passwords. What about the other key log from the past? There are some potentially important things recently.

DANIELA: Yes.

KLG -- "key log" -- for our close friend, I will check later today. Will let you know. KLG -- "key log" -- for our not so close friend I will also check today, will also let you know.

DANIELA: I reply seven minutes later.

I am at home. Bad news about the KYLG -- "key logger." I can no longer get through. Kristin will give you the details and options. The one in closer proximity I have not checked. Apparently the machine is not being used. Already talked to Pam but I do not think she will make it happen.

DANIELA: Yes.

The closer proximity machine I think is in use.

DANIELA: Yes.

It says: And that is right. I can get no downloads. Never did get those safely. I had a normal way in.

That one?

DANIELA: Within minutes, yes, it seems like.

He asks: Why no downloads?

DANIELA: I replied right way.

Killed that entrance as soon as I got the info I needed since it was very visible and thus very vulnerable.

DANIELA: Yes.

It says -- well, it says: Please tell me them. Also any more on our friend's key log or the other?

DANIELA: And he had -- he had in the past always, like, joked about it. Oh, we'll have babies. We'll have babies with really big heads, really smart babies. There was a point in conversations with him -- I even researched eugenics because he would mention things like that, but I didn't want to -- my relationship with Keith was not something I -- I liked Keith. I thought -- I idolized him. I thought he was a great man, but he was with a lot of other women and he was with my sisters and that was not something that I wanted the world to know. You know, that was something that caused me a lot of shame.

So I could not imagine having a baby with him. I could not -- and I also was very young and I didn't feel ready but mostly I didn't want to have a baby with Keith.

DANIELA: Well, I was -- I was, as you would imagine, very emotional. And I was -- I was, I would say panicky and it was a big -- I mean it's big -- it's huge -- it's a huge thing and so I went to tell him and -- and -- and he was very -- and he was very calm and collected. Like, to him it was not like -- I was not like what it felt like for me.

He didn't react to it. He was -- his response was very surprising to me. I'm sure he asked me a few questions. I don't remember those exactly, but I do remember he said, well, we've already talked about this. We've already talked about what you do if this happens. And we had never talked about that before, never. I would have known.

So he very matter of factly (sic) stated that we already talked about that if I got pregnant, I would have an abortion. So that interaction was very shocking to me and I was very emotional and I was very scared but it's also what I wanted. I could not imagine having a baby. So I didn't push back. Even though I knew we did not have that conversation. I did not want to have the baby so it was right in line with what I wanted in that moment, but it was surprising to hear him say that.

DANIELA: So went to the clinic and, you know, there's the same type of concerns, the same type of talk about what she should say and what should she do and all of these things and it was tense. It was a tense environment and we all went into the examination room. I remember that. So I went in with Cami, Pam was with us and the nurse or technician was there and sure enough, you know, she started asking all of these questions and -- and there was something that caused some alarm in this person, I don't remember who it was, but that was asking the questions.

And I don't remember exactly what it was, but I remember feeling like she's asking -- she's asking a lot of questions now and in this -- in this examination that they're conducting something happened, like, they pulled up a file or maybe the technician -- if something happened, I don't remember what, but this person mentioned that, you know, I remember that I had had an abortion, not somebody else's abortion but it was my abortion, and it was raising all kinds of flags.

DANIELA: I just remember her being very upset and that -- and when Pam got really upset, she just would go over the same thoughts over and over again. Keith used to call it she was looping. She was looping and looping and looping out loud. So I remember she just kept repeating those things, and she -- that fuss she made was very effective, so that the technician went like, ah, she really should not have said anything. There was something about like patient confidentiality that she was talking about that she should not have disclosed in front of one patient somebody else's -- you know, some other patient's information. And she had been right about that.

And so, you know, kind of diffused, you know, the tense situation that was going the other way in questioning Cami and what she was doing and what was going on.

DANIELA: Yes, so I -- I knew she had gone through the awful appendix thing and I remember thinking, oh my gosh, she can take a lot of pain. And so seeing her in pain, I knew that she was not exaggerating. I mean she could take a lot of pain, so she's in pain, it's a lot -- a lot of it.

And also, I think that I mean all I can do is compare it to me, right, my experience. So I think that for her it was harder, like in an emotional way. I don't think she was very clear on whether -- or at least that's what I sensed, on whether, you know, like the decision to keep the baby or not keep the baby, like maybe that wasn't so easy for her. Like for her it wasn't as clearcut as maybe it had been for me. So, I think she struggled emotionally and physically a lot.

DANIELA: I -- I -- I -- I think she was there to facilitate it. She was the -- she seemed very well-versed in it and -- and, you know, she was like a handler. You know, like -- like she knew what needed to be done and to, like, make sure it was done right.

So, and -- you know, at the time I thought it was -- it felt like she was taking care of me, but really now looking back I think she was making sure that there were no liabilities; that there was -- like the risk was minimized, you know, in the different sense on the exposure of the -- of the, you know, of the status, for example, in my -- in my instance, or that there would be too many questions about, you know, who's the father, who's this, who's that. So she was there to make sure that didn't happen.

DANIELA: Well, when I went through the process with Cami and Pam was there, that was confirmed. You know, that -- that -- that her -- that her role was to facilitate having those abortions. That her role was to make sure that it went well, that it didn't get back to Keith, in a way. You know, like that she would shield Keith, you know, in this activity that went on, you know.

Here you have two sisters, one that is really young, and the other one that, you know, like -- and I actually don't know about how the process was like for Marianna, I don't know if it was the same clinic, but at least talking about Cami and me, a lot of questions are raised from that. So Pam -- Pam's role was very clear in that she told us what to say, told us what to do. And yes, cared for us and, you know, made sure we had the medicine, but really it was to make sure that everything went according to plan.

DANIELA: I guess in all my innocence I, you know, I -- I was -- he was my best friend. I think that's pretty much it. I had nobody else to tell, and I -- it never crossed my mind to hide it. It was this brand new discovery I thought I had made, you know, like this thing for a long time before that I thought I was kind of asexual. Like, you know, I wasn't -- you know, I obviously was doing things to Keith and I was doing things with Keith, but even before him, like it was not something that I ever had felt before. So it was like this lovely discovery in myself and it was about me. I didn't even consider, you know, what it meant, you know, about him or anything else.

So I was just there to tell him, I -- this happened and this is how I felt. And kind of like, you know, more like as a friend, kind of like, you know, share it. Figure it out.

DANIELA: It was clear to me that it was not good. Like it was a -- it was a bad thing. I had done something bad. It was -- in like complete contrast with what I was feeling was his reaction to it.

And I remember feeling like, oh, you know, like it was a huge -- like, oh, shit, you know. And there was -- there was a conversation about it, and maybe even a couple of conversations after that where he said: I -- you know, I caused those feelings, that I could choose who to have them for and I wasn't having them for him, for Keith. So there was like this -- this -- this drift. So I didn't -- I really didn't push back much at all that I remember. It was like I understood that he didn't think it was something good and I just, like, stepped back for a little bit.

DANIELA: I felt -- hmm, I felt -- hmm, I wouldn't say disappointment. I felt -- I felt a little bit confused, I think. I think it would be fair to say I felt confused. I felt -- so it didn't help me at all to understand what was happening, which is kind of what I was seeking, but he put up a wall of: Don't go there, that's not good. Like that's how I feel his reaction was.

So, you know -- but this that I just felt was like -- I mean it was amazing to me. Like, I was like -- probably like at the time it was the most amazing thing I had ever felt like inside of me, in my young adult like. It was like a huge -- you know, like this huge thing and he's like, no. His reaction shouldn't have, but it surprised me, I guess, like totally surprised me.

DANIELA: Yes. I mean he said more about him in the -- in the conversations that would follow, but honestly in that first conversation, in the string of conversations after we almost kissed, what I can remember is just what he told me about me that, you know, because for me it was like this wonderful thing and maybe this is love, maybe this is like -- what is this wonderful thing?

And his -- his direction was: No, no, no, no, no, that's not what it is. You are making it up. You cause every single feeling you have and you should have that for me, not for him. But I didn't pay much attention as to what he was saying about him. I was still very much focused in what I was feeling and what I thought of it.

DANIELA: Yes. I was -- it was, like, fall so it was a little chilly and I was wearing a long sleeve top, white top, crewneck, and I was wearing a Ralph Lauren, like, long skirt with two buttons on the side. I thought I looked nice.

And I went to Star Trek and I was looking forward to it and I was looking forward to seeing him and just like the week prior. I saw Ben there and we were the last ones to leave and we stayed for a while and we talked and we got closer and he kissed me. And we kissed and, you know, we were on the couch where we used to watch Star Trek and we, I think the slang word is we made out. But, you know, it was -- it was very -- it was very nice.

So that night, we kissed, we made out, and I realized that all of this that I was feeling was something that I wanted, you know -- it made me feel, oh, it made me feel so many wonderful things. And it was, it -- it felt real. It felt true. It felt nice. So, and I liked the way, I liked the way I felt with him and I liked what happened. I mean, granted, I was, what, 21 years old maybe? Maybe old for that first experience but I, I was feeling it and I really liked it and I think I realized what that was and I'm, like, I want this.

DANIELA: So that night, I went straight to Keith to talk to him, to tell him about what happened. It was never my intention to hide anything or to, you know, make it seem like something else, and to, like, to figure out -- like, to me, it was, like, all right.

So, obviously, I have this relationship with Keith, I have promised to be with him forever, and, you know, now I've discovered this thing and I want to be with, with Ben. And, you know, I'm not sure that I would say, the exact word to say, oh, I was in love with Ben. I had this huge crush and he had awoken this thing in me and I had feelings for him and I wanted more of that. And, you know, in my mind, it was kind of simple. It was, well, I'm going to talk to Keith and, like, like, almost, like, negotiate, like, okay, so I want to be with Ben and began, you know -- be friends and everything. We have, we can still have -- and, you know, I remember, like, all the things I was thinking I was going to say and I did end up saying. And so I went to him to have this honest conversation with him and I didn't think it was going to be easy but that's what I went to tell him.

DANIELA: My universe exploded. When I told Keith, that moment is the moment when my life went -- and I didn't even -- he, he was, he was angry. I had never seen him angry. He was -- it was dramatic. It was irrational. It was illogic. I remember that night and I remember there was no reasoning with him.

And I was -- I thought what I was trying to say, what I was trying to get through to him was something simple, you now, maybe not easy. You know, maybe like now, looking at it from now, like, I'm breaking up with him. Like, let's be friends. You know, like -- not like something that's the end of the world, but it was this huge, huge fight. It was, like, loud. I had never seen Keith that way. And, you know, the actual conversation, which escalated to argument than conversation over the course of the night, he said things like, you know, I wasn't pure anymore and I had been this specialist thing and, you know, I held so much promise for him and I had destroyed everything, that I had destroyed the thought object of him.

DANIELA: A thought object is an ESP term. It's a little complicated to explain, but the thought object is basically, as I understand it -- so I had an idea. There's a world that we all share and we live in the reality of things. And then we have the way we see the reality, all of us, and that includes this, particular people, particular things, how we have it in our minds and how we perceive it which is not necessarily the same as reality.

So, for example, so I have a certain idea of what, you know, Moira is like. I'm sorry to use your first name. But, and everybody has an idea of what that person is like and it's not the same as reality because that's constructed based on our perceptions, right? And every person has the ability to change that inner, inner Moira in their head based on their thoughts about the real Moira.

So the thought object is this construct that is not necessarily linked to reality and the concept in ESP is one must be honorable because one can't destroy the thought object of someone simply by your thoughts about them and your feelings about them. And so that's how it works.

So, for instance, if I think ill of you and you haven't done anything to, for me to think ill of you, then it's dishonorable for me to be thinking those thoughts because I'm changing my thought object of you. Likewise, if I go and tell, gossip to someone about you and it's not true, it's dishonorable, and they change the way, oh, you know, they think about that person, then their inner Moira, their thought object changes and that's dishonorable. So the concept of thought object in ESP was tightly related to, you know, damaging and ethical breaches because something you did could affect the thought object of somebody else and now you had to go and reconstruct that in every person because you did something that caused everybody to think ill of someone else so now you have to go and repair that.

So in this case, when I'm talking to Keith, he is telling me that the way I think of him, I've changed forever and I've destroyed it and that is my fault and that is an ethical breach for me and that's what he's referring to.

DANIELA: Well, I remember it was a very intense back and forth and I used, to the best of my understanding, you know, the relationship as I knew it to make him understand.

So, for example, I had -- so the way I saw it, Keith didn't really love me. Keith loved my sister Marianna. Keith loved Pam. He spent a lot of time with them. He spent time with me but it wasn't romantic, it wasn't sexual. I mean he had me give him oral sex but that was very robotic and mechanical. He never napped with me, slept with me, never kissed me, fondled me, had affection for me. So it was clear to me and I saw him do it with other women and I saw he loved other women and that's how I felt it.

So now I had found someone felt something like that about me and I felt it about them so I could have love too and I was trying to explain that to him and tell him, You don't love me anyway. Like, why are you -- why can't we just be friends? You can still teach me. We can still do science together. We can still do great things together. And he, like -- there was just no reasoning with him. He would not let it go. It was: No, you can't, you're destroying me, I've done everything for you and you are now damaging me, you're hurting my heart, you're hurting me, you know, you are going to kill me. Like, all these, like, huge, huge dramatic things that I was trying to -- and obviously it wasn't happening.

I'm talking about it very calmly now. It was a very heated exchange and I am, to the best of my ability, to the best of my logical understanding of things, trying to, like -- basically, it felt like a battle where I'm trying to make him understand my point and there's just no getting through to him.

DANIELA: Yes. So, and I even remember I mentioned that back then. He would often use this, which, to me, is a mystical notion, the fact that when someone that he was having sex with was doing something bad with respect to him, he would hurt. Like, he would often say his heart is what hurt, like, physically, and he was hurting and he had the chills and he was hurting and he was ill because I was causing it.

And I remember in that conversation, I remember telling him, because here I am having this argument with him and I thought that, I thought I understood what my role was in his life and I thought he was my best friend and I thought I was his best friend, you know, like, we shared a lot of time together, we talked about a lot of things. I saw his life with all these other women. And during the course of this argument, he's using with me all the, all the same techniques that he uses to discipline all of his women.

I remember standing there telling him, Hey, don't use that on me. I'm your friend. I've seen you use this with everybody else, you know. Like, you're trying to make me crazy. You're saying something to me that isn't. You're telling me this, I'm hurting, you're using all these acts of discipline that I've seen you use. It's me. I'm your friend.

I couldn't get through but I, I was trying. You know, that's just, that was the negotiation that I was failing to, to, you know, that I was attempting to get at and he, he was very dramatic about it. So he was, like, everything is going to be over, which scared me because I -- well, I wanted to, I wanted -- he still held everything. I still idolized him. He was still very important. I cared about him. I cared about him but I, with this interaction with Ben, I had realized that, you know, there's care and there's sexual attraction and that's not something I had for Keith, you know.

So, I was trying to make sense so that's still myself and I was trying to make sense of it with him in the most, you know, if you will, honorable way, like straightforward, honest, like, this is how I feel, this is what it is, but there was no getting anywhere with him.

DANIELA: Yes. So anything that was related to me backing down or me hanging onto the idea that I liked Ben and that that was a reason, he would say I was prideful. He would say, That's your pride, you know, that's your pride talking, that's your ugly pride, you're hanging onto that and you're choosing your pride as opposed to us, which is, you know, not something -- it's precisely what I was trying to explain to him. But he, he called me prideful, you know, destructive. He told me about my soul and that, you know, my soul would, like, I will lose my soul, essentially, which is not something that I subscribe to so it didn't -- it wasn't very transcendental for me.

And, you know, during the course of this discussion, this argument, at some point, we moved, we walked over to Hale. So we were at Hale discussing some more and it wasn't getting anywhere. He was just trying to, he was trying to -- by calling me prideful and by, like, obscuring things with, like, You're being destructive and you never really did your program and all these different things, trying to obscure what me, what for me was, initially, like a very simple matter that I wanted to resolve with him. And so it got escalated and escalated more and more and we got, we were at Hale and that's --

DANIELA: And we continued discussing -- I remember discussing by the piano. That's where I told him, Don't treat me like -- don't do the things you do to your women. It's me. It's me. You can talk to me. You know, we can figure this out in a logical way.

But he was making no sense to me. And, you know, he was managing to confuse me with some of the things but I thought I had a very clear idea of what I wanted to get at and I didn't want to walk out of there without an answer, you know.

DANIELA: Because, because I was -- I was very clear about what I felt and about what I wanted and, I mean, honestly, I trusted -- Keith was like a logical, rational person. Like, in my mind, there had been no space for, you know, the notion that I was on this unbreakable relationship. I thought it was something that could be, you know, worked out. So, you know, why not? You know, he's perfectly reasonable. I'm perfectly reasonable. This is not like a huge, like, super complicated issue.

You know, things needed to be talked out and -- but there was no resolving it, not one way or another. It wasn't, like, okay, fine, you want this, then you can't have anything. That wasn't an option. It was just a grilling of, you know, you have to stop wanting that. No, you have to stop saying that, that's prideful. No, you're wrong. You say you feel that about Ben but you're wrong. You don't even know what you feel. You're not honest with yourself. You don't feel that about Ben. So they were trying to make me crazy about feeling what I was not feeling. So, honestly, maybe I was stubborn but I couldn't let it go. I was very clear what I felt and what I thought about it.

So the argument continued. We walked back to Flintlock and he still, you know, wasn't giving me an answer. There was no resolution to it and it was still very illogical, still very pushing against what I knew was real versus, you know, Oh, that's just your pride, that's your pride talking. So there was a point where he wanted the conversation to stop and I didn't want to stop. I would not let it go. And I remember, back at Flintlock, Karen was there and Pam was there. I remember Karen was there and Pam was there. I only remember because she later repeated part of the conversation because she overheard it from the top of the stairs. She would do that sometimes. She would eavesdrop on the conversations.

So, you know, I was insisting to get some kind of a resolution. He kept calling me prideful and destructive, even for just doing that and he locked himself up in the bathroom. There's a front bathroom in Flintlock and just -- which I thought was very childish, you know, like, he locked himself up. I want to talk to you. We're having a conversation. You know, let's just finish this. Give me an answer. I want to know. I want to resolve this. It wasn't even I wanted to know. It was I wanted to not feel crazy because it was supposed to be much more simple.

So he locked himself up in the bathroom. I remember Karen asked me to leave and I was like, No, I, you know, this is -- I want to figure this out. This still makes no sense to me. And I remember he stayed there in the bathroom locked in for, like, a little while and then he, like, sneaked out and ran upstairs and I ran right after him. Like, you know, I ran, like, I chased him still wanting to just finish that, you know, to just come to a conclusion, whatever that was.

I remember we were in Pam's room where I approached him and he grabbed me. Like, he grabbed me by the arm or something and like threw me over the air like onto the floor and there was like a mattress on the floor. And I remember, like, he had never been violent with me and I just remember, like, I landed on the mattress, you know, and it's, like -- it was, like, a thin -- I just land on the mattress and that was -- and he just walked out, ran out, and that was the end of that argument.

You know, I just stayed there, like, okay, and that's how, that's how it ended.

DANIELA: Roles? Keith's role in my life was very large. He occupied a very big space. He -- he was the one person I most looked up to. I thought he was a great man. You know, I was documenting him. That's the degree of greatness that I thought he held. I thought in my life he held a position of power. He was the person I most listened to, but also the person who exerted the most power in my life. I was highly dependent on him and his community which he controlled and he was also my only friend. Like, there was nobody else for me to talk to at that point. I had a coach. I didn't talk to my mother anymore. My relationships was secret and, therefore, a large part of my life was.

My best friend, who was my sister Mariana, wasn't my best friend anymore. We didn't have any of those conversations so he was basically my entire life. You know, he still held the promise of teaching me. He still held the promise of doing science together, whatever I think that is now but that was the promise of me moving in that direction with him so his role in my life was all-encompassing.

DANIELA: There were a few key things that were -- that were very shocking for me about that -- about that final argument, fight, if you will. And that completely contradicted the idea that I had about Keith. One of them is throughout he basically -- basically -- I don't know how else to say it, but he was talking shit about Ben and, you know, it wasn't that he was talking ill about Ben but rather than Keith was speaking with dishonor which was a concept in ESP where you don't speak with dishonor about other people and he was like -- it was just flowing out of him. He was angry; like, visibly red-in-the-face angry. I have never seen him have a strong emotion like that and he was irrational and illogical in our arguments. Perhaps that's what surprised me the most and the way he treated me.

You know, the kind of -- some of it, it would take me a while to process and look back and like -- but right then and there was a shift in the way he was talking and the way he was thinking and his emotional state. Like the drama that he -- it was a very dramatic response that he had. So, my -- my perception of him definitely shifted.

DANIELA: People -- I mean, I've seen this happen before. To me it's no -- there's no question about it. You know, now I'm the person having a problem as I have seen before and my coach. Mainly my coach, Karen, is, like, working on me. You know, you need to fix this with Keith, you need to do this. So it's like a big push for me to -- like I've done something bad, I need to fix it. That's the clear narrative there and it's not that simple for me.

At the time, I remember after the fight with Keith, I -- I thought about what I wanted to do because this was certainly, you know, a before and after and I thought about going back to Mexico at times and I even went as far as to -- you know, packing my stuff, wiping my computers and but people were sent to work on me and discouraged me from doing that, so talked me out of leaving; No, you can't leave things the way you are. You destroyed so much. You need to fix it. You know, when you burn someone's house down you are supposed to repair it. You're not supposed to just leave.

There would be a lot of -- they called it coaching, but really it was this -- they were working on me to, you know, do the right thing but really it was to apologize; it was my fault, make it better, get back to Keith.

DANIELA: My life changed completely overnight. Just like sex with Keith meant access, just not being with Keith meant just loss of access, isolation. The -- it was very clear that it was not only Keith but it was Keith's community. So overnight I couldn't go to the volleyball games. Overnight I couldn't go to the community events. Overnight I couldn't be anywhere that Keith was but also not with the community. So it was like immediate isolation or like a shunning of sorts. It was overnight.

And that's just as far as the actual, like, physical state of me, but also it was my daily life changed. I used to spend every waking moment working on this, working on that, documenting him and all of these things. Funny enough I was still expected to go work to the executive library. Funny enough I was still expected to provide the information from the key loggers, but everything else in my life was completely different.

DANIELA: He said what -- and, again, these were his reasons -- that I needed to fix my thought object of everything that had happened and he was gonna help me do that. That was like the general. So under the guise of he's gonna help me fix this, there is this, I don't know, harassment of all these excruciating details. Kind of parallel to it, there was like the constant demand for: You need to be vulnerable. You need to have full disclosure with me. The only way you're gonna get through this is if you tell me everything. Tell me your fantasies. Tell me your fantasy -- like just everything. Just tell me everything. Every single -- and write to me all the time. You don't write enough. It's never enough. You haven't written. It's been so many hours, you haven't written.

And when it was about Ben, it was just the same questions: I thought you told me everything. Why haven't you told me everything? Have you told me everything? Why don't you -- tell me more. Tell me something you haven't told me before. It was constant.

DANIELA: Right? It's a long time.

No, I remember because I remember at some point coming to the realization, and I think even writing Keith saying, wow, I've now spent more time having an e-mail relationship with you than an actual relationship. So it was longer than the three years that I actually had a relationship with him.

So the progression, again, what happened. There was -- after the fight, there was a period of like no communication with him. It was -- I was being coached, coached to like not leave. Coached to stay. Coached to do the right thing. Coached to work on my pride, work on my program, get back on track.

Then the e-mail communication starts with Keith and that is, I mean that's -- I mean by no means that's like an -- like an easy -- it's like, to me it's a roller-coaster, you know, of -- of -- you know, there was like -- through the coaching and through the grilling and through like the beating me up with all these people working on me. There were times when I was, you know, completely confused and like bought into the: Oh, this is my pride. I'm just so destructive. I'm so bad, My God, I've hurt Keith so bad, you know, I need to make this right. And I would go like into overdrive, like I to need to do my program. I need to lose weight. I need to do book reports. I need to do all these things. And I could get in the groove of that, but, you know, that was a complete -- I mean, that was unfounded. You know, that -- so, eventually, it would be like down again. Like no, I don't want this life. You know, what am I doing here? What, am I like in e-mail communication with this guy that doesn't care about me? This is not about this; you know, this is about what I felt and this is about I have dreams. You know, I want to study. I want to have a life. I want to have friends. I feel isolated. I did not sign up for a monk life. You know, I don't want to be reporting my weight. And they would say I get really defiant.

And -- you know, and Keith would like, through his e-mails, he would essentially like beat me up, you know, into submission, basically. Like, you know: No, that's bad. You shouldn't do that. You shouldn't think that. You should be -- you know, you should be loving to me. You should be -- you should be writing me more. You should be reporting all the time. You should be working on this.

And, you know, and then I would like, my coach: You should be humble; that's, you know, like you shouldn't be prideful. So I would say: Well, maybe I'm not right, maybe they're right. Maybe they do want to help me, maybe I'm crazy and I don't want to be helped. And so it would be like a constant roller-coaster.

Like the e-mails with Keith were crazy, you know, like they were crazy, incessant requests for information, but also for me to do things and -- and like instructions for me to -- you know, I wasn't allowed -- at some point I remember thinking, well, my weight never stopped being like a main focus of everything. So every e-mail, what's your weight? What's your weight? What did you -- are you fasting? Are you still fasting? Did you break your fast? What's your weight? How much have you weighed? What's the last, you know, you've ever weighed?

You know, like all these incessant questions. And I remember at some point amongst all these years I thought it would be a very good idea if I started running and I trained for a race. Huge ethical breach. That's indulgent, Dani, you know, that -- if you have an ethical breach, you need to fix. You can't be indulging on running. You know. And I remember like getting very defiant and then they would come and EM me, because I'd be like: But that's part of my program, like isn't that how I'm gonna fix it?

And certainly, during the progress of those years, it became very clear that everything I did, everything I did, was considered indulgent and an act of pride. Basically, anything I did that was not, you know, like pleasing Keith was: You're being indulgent. It's an act of pride. You -- you know, you want to go out and have a cup of coffee; that's indulgent, that's an act of pride. You want to help your siblings pass the GED test; that's indulgent, that's an act of pride. With someone who is really focused on fixing a mistake, it would be doing anything but fixing that mistake. So all of this, I was very confused at the time. You know, between the EMs and between these e-mails and between what I felt, it was, like I said, a roller-coaster of emotions. And so those -- that escalated. And coupled with the fact that I had given no avenue to make any money, I was illegally in the country. I had no way to make money. I had at some point, I believe, like given some kind of ultimatum; you can only make money doing book reports. You cannot do anything else for money.

So I was like cornered and I couldn't do anything else, and so I started having issues with what do I eat? Like as simple as that. You know, what do I do for, you know, like I can't possibly pay rent, you know, that was very quickly -- I mean, very early on. So just the way I would describe those years leading up to being put in the room, it's like my world closed in on me. Like every -- like -- and as it got closer and closer, like as time progressed, like there was like Nancy working with me and then: You're indulgent about this. You can't go run. You're indulgent about this, you cannot go to a community event. You're indulgent about this, you can't have -- you know, you can't go out and have like something to eat.

And then at some point things got really bad, I guess, and my family became involved. And it was like this big ultimatum and my family became involved, and then my world closed in even more. They took my iPod. They took my computer. They took my phone. They took my -- everything I owned, my books, everything I had in my shelf, my papers, everything. To the point where I was sleeping in a sleeping bag on the floor of my living room and having to do 15-minute reality checks to report in -- and that is every 15 minutes I had to write what I was doing. Every 15 minutes. Every 15 minutes, this was a thing. And I had to do that.

I woke up, I was like, I guess earning my keep in my father's condo, which was 12 Wilton Court, by cleaning the bathroom, by cleaning the kitchen, by making juices, and I had to, like, do my program and I needed to do book reports and I needed to do a fast and I couldn't eat. And even if I could, you know, like what would I eat? And everything got -- just every single degree of freedom that I had I lost. Every single one. And everything I did was bad. Everything I did was indulgent. Everything I did was an act of pride.

And when I raised my voice to say: I can't understand, I don't do this. That's your pride. That's your pride talking. You know, shut that down. So it was an impossible situation that I could not get out of. And at the point towards the end of this, this lapse of years, and the e-mails are still coming and all of that, it's very -- before I lost my computer and it just, you know, came to the point where I was like -- I was, I mean honestly, I was -- I was by no means like rational at that point. I was going crazy.

And I remember at some point I was hungry and I ate some food from the refrigerator at the house, my -- the house where I was living, you know, from my parents' house. And that was really bad. They said consequences. They put a lock on the refrigerator so I couldn't even eat anymore, and I had nothing that I could eat and I had no way to make money. And this was -- at some point I did something, I don't even remember what it was. I'm sure it was something indulgent and prideful, and they locked me out of the house for -- during winter. Like, for a few days, I don't even remember how many.

But -- so things escalated so much and they escalated, they recruited my family to work on me. My family had no idea what had happened. You know, they didn't know, oh, this was about Keith versus Ben. They didn't have that clarity at all, they were just told: Your daughter is prideful and destructive. You didn't teach her cause and effect. You're the parent, it's your responsibility. You should help fix her. In fact, it's your ethical breach too because she's destroying our community. So they were involved to like come fix me. And, so, they were like setting all these consequences and having these meetings with, like, Keith and, like getting these messages through my sister Marianna about what to do with me.

So those few years are a progression of -- of confusion for me, yes; but also, a loss of every single one of my freedoms until I had no choice.