1.Richard Guerci — Direct/Cross/Redirect/Recross (Part 2)
454 lines(In open court - jury not present.)
(Judge NICHOLAS G. GARAUFIS entered the courtroom.)
(The defendant entered the courtroom.)
THE COURT: Please be seated.
Appearances.
MS. PENZA: Moira Penza, Tanya Hajjar, and Mark Lesko for the United States.
Good morning, Your Honor.
Also at counsel table is Special Agent Michael Lever and Paralegal Specialist Teri Carby.
MR. AGNIFILO: Good morning, Your Honor.
Marc Agnifilo, Teny Geragos, Paul der Ohannesian, and Danielle Smith, for Keith Raniere, who is present with us as well.
Good morning, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Good morning.
All right, I have a letter here from the defense about the irrevocable trust and how it should be handled in the charge.
Have you seen it?
MS. PENZA: I have, Your Honor. I don't have a copy with me.
THE COURT: Well, here. We have one for you.
MS. PENZA: Thank you.
THE COURT: Why don't you look at it at a break and --
MS. PENZA: Okay.
THE COURT: -- let me know whether you think that in its current form it is appropriate or not.
MS. PENZA: We will, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right?
MS. PENZA: Thank you.
MR. LESKO: Your Honor, I went back through my notes last night, I neglected to ask just a couple of questions. I would ask permission to just ask those questions of Investigator Guerci, just a handful. It will take a minute.
MR. AGNIFILO: No objection.
THE COURT: All right, fine.
MR. LESKO: Thank you, Judge.
THE COURT: All right, let's bring in the jury.
(Pause.)
MR. LESKO: Should we get the witness, Your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes, let's bring in the witness.
(Witness enters the courtroom and resumes the stand.)
(Jury enters.)
THE COURT: Please be seated, everyone.
Good morning, members of the jury.
JURORS: Good morning.
THE COURT: We are going to have a few more questions on direct for the current witness, and then we will turn to cross-examination.
Mr. Lesko, go ahead.
MR. LESKO: Thank you.
THE COURT: I remind the witness he is still under oath.
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, sir.
(Continued on the following page.)
RICHARD GUERCI, previously called as a witness by the Government, having been previously duly sworn/affirmed by the Courtroom Deputy, was examined and testified further under oath as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION CONTINUES BY MR. LESKO:
MR. LESKO: Good morning, Investigator Guerci.
RICHARD GUERCI: Good morning.
MR. LESKO: I just have a few more questions for you.
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, sir.
MR. LESKO: I am going to show you what's in evidence as Government's 725. We went through this.
This is the schedule you prepared regarding charges related to Pamela Cafritz's American Express card account ending in Nos. 42002, is that right?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, it is.
MR. LESKO: And the schedule that you prepared involved charges from November 7th, the date -- November 7th, 2016, the date of Pamela Cafritz's death.
Until -- what is the last date of the charges that you reviewed?
RICHARD GUERCI: February 8th, 2018.
MR. LESKO: Okay. And could you just tell us what the total amount of charges were on the American Express credit card from November 7th, 2016, until February 8th, 2018?
RICHARD GUERCI: Approximately, $135,000.
MR. LESKO: And in your review of the -- the statements related Ms. Cafritz's American Express card account ending 42002, was Pamela Cafritz an authorized user of that card?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, she was.
MR. LESKO: And were there any other authorized users of that card?
RICHARD GUERCI: Not based on the information from the statements or information I obtained from American Express, no, there were not.
MR. LESKO: Thank you.
MR. LESKO: No more questions.
THE COURT: All right, cross-examination, please.
MR. AGNIFILO: Thank you, Your Honor.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: Good morning, Investigator Guerci.
RICHARD GUERCI: Good morning.
MR. AGNIFILO: We know each other, we've worked on other cases together?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: I'm Marc Agnifilo. I represent Keith Raniere. I am going to ask you some questions this morning. I won't have you on there long.
If I ask you a question that is not clear to you, just ask me to rephrase it. I'm happy to do that.
RICHARD GUERCI: Thank you. I will, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. So you covered this yesterday. I'm referring now to Government's Exhibit 724 in evidence.
This is what we were looking at yesterday as the "Petition for Resignation of Executor and Appointment of Successor Executor" for the will of Pam Cafritz, correct?
(Exhibit published.)
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes. Uh-hum.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And I think that we looked at, as attachment to that same exhibit, is the actual will of Pam Cafritz, right?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And I think we also looked at yesterday, this is page 3 of the petition, the different people that are sort of named in the will.
(Exhibit published.)
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: And Keith Raniere is the one on the bottom, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: And it indicates that he is the sole beneficiary of the estate through his beneficial interest in the Pamela Anne Cafritz Living Trust, Nominated Trustee of the Pamela Anne Cafritz Living Trust, right?
RICHARD GUERCI: That's what it indicates, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And he stands to be the sole beneficiary of the estate through the trust, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: Based on this document, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So while he is -- he is resigning his position as executor of the will, he still stands to -- he's not resigning his position as sole beneficiary of the trust by this document, right?
RICHARD GUERCI: Not based on this document.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And in no other documents that you looked at, did Keith Raniere give up his standing as the sole beneficiary of the estate, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: None that I reviewed.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So just -- I don't do trust and estates work for a living, so I am just going to ask you some questions. If you know the answer, great. If not, we'll just move on.
RICHARD GUERCI: Okay.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So one of the things that happens in a will is that there's an executor, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: That's my understanding, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And the executor does certain executive-type things in regards to the will, determines, you know, how property is going to be handled, sort of handles the will because the person who wrote the will is deceased, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: My limited knowledge in this area, that's my understanding.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And I think -- let me make sure of this. If I'm not mistaken, I think we covered this yesterday.
Rosa Laura Junco stood to be the executor if Keith Raniere was not the executor. So Keith was the primary executor and Rosa Laura was the secondary executor?
RICHARD GUERCI: That's correct, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And so what Keith was doing, he was giving up his rights to be the executor, causing Rosa Laura to be the executor, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. I want to go through some of the records.
MR. AGNIFILO: I'll find them, Judge.
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: 722.
RICHARD GUERCI: Okay.
(Exhibit published.)
MR. AGNIFILO: 722, I think we talked about yesterday. These are American Express records, right?
RICHARD GUERCI: Well, 722 is the certificate of authenticity in the records, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right. So it's the authenticating certificate from someone from American Express saying that these are the authentic American Express records, which comprise the balance of these being -- of 722, right?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. So I just want to go through a few of those.
RICHARD GUERCI: Okay.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And looking at your Exhibit 725 for a minute, bear with me.
RICHARD GUERCI: No problem.
(Exhibit published.)
MR. AGNIFILO: 725 is your chart, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And here you're talking about an account ending 42002, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you know if that account had a prior account number before it was 42002?
RICHARD GUERCI: In fact, it did, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. All right. So we are going to go through some of those records.
RICHARD GUERCI: Okay.
MR. AGNIFILO: This is Government's Exhibit 722-2. It's already in evidence.
(Exhibit published.)
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: And -- okay. So here (indicating) and we are just really focused on the account number for a minute.
It's Pamela Anne Cafritz. It's the account with a closing date of January 11th, 2015. So she is alive?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. It's more than a year -- more than a year-and-a-half before her death, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: And the account here is account ending 2-41004.
Do you see that?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, I do.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And just by way of comparison, you already said that the number changed, it changed because when you were charting it, it was ending in 42002, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, for the period of time.
MR. AGNIFILO: Got it. All right. So let's go through some of these records.
All right. I'm going to direct your attention to Government Exhibit 722, page 84.
(Exhibit published.)
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. So this is Pamela Anne Cafritz, closing date of August 11th, 2015.
Do you see that?
RICHARD GUERCI: I do.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And we are going to go to one of the pages of this particular monthly statement, which is noted as Government's 722-87.
(Exhibit published.)
MR. AGNIFILO: And I am going to have you look at this entry, which is the second entry there.
And it shows a Delta Airlines flight for Marianna, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: It does, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And so this is, you'll agree with me, this is the fourth page of this monthly statement from Pam Cafritz, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. So what we're seeing in Pam Cafritz's account, a full -- over a year before she passed away, is we have Marianna flying on a Delta flight, it looks like, between JFK and Mexico City, correct?
(Exhibit published.)
RICHARD GUERCI: That's what this suggests, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. We are going to fast forward to Government's 722, page 132.
(Exhibit published.)
MR. AGNIFILO: Page 132 of Government 722 is another Pamela Anne Cafritz American Express account statement, this one with a closing date of December 11th, 2015, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. So Pam is alive here, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: And we are going to go to page 4.
(Exhibit published.)
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: And we see here at the bottom on November 12th, 2015, there are Delta Airline flights for -- the first entry is Keith Raniere to go to, it looks like, Rochester, Minnesota by way of Detroit.
Do you see that?
RICHARD GUERCI: I do.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And then under that we have Marianna from the same date, November 12th, 2015, going from the same place to the same place, right?
RICHARD GUERCI: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And then the last of these three entries is Pam Cafritz, who appears to be traveling with Keith and Marianna, going from -- going to Rochester, Minnesota by way of Detroit.
Do you see that?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, I do.
MR. AGNIFILO: And this -- again, this is all on Pam's credit card, right?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. We are going to fast forward. This is Government's Exhibit 722, page 200.
(Exhibit published.)
MR. AGNIFILO: This is Pam Cafritz, her account, with a closing date of 5/11/16.
Do you see that?
RICHARD GUERCI: I do.
MR. AGNIFILO: And I think one of the things you testified to yesterday is that there was -- there were expenditures after Pam had passed away to Speedpay National Grid 2.
Do you remember those?
RICHARD GUERCI: I do.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. I think you said that was a utility company?
RICHARD GUERCI: That is a utility company, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And so here we see payments to that utility company from Pam's credit card while Pam is alive, on April 11th, 2016, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: I do see that, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And if we continue on in this exhibit, we see at the bottom here, we see it looks like airlines tickets for Pam Cafritz from 4/28/16.
Do you see that?
(Exhibit published.)
RICHARD GUERCI: I do. I see it's for -- it looks like it's for baggage charges.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes, for baggage charges?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Let's go to the next page.
(Exhibit published.)
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: And I think we have baggage charges also on the next page for Marianna as well, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes --
MR. AGNIFILO: And then --
RICHARD GUERCI: -- on 4/28/16.
MR. AGNIFILO: I'm sorry. I cut you off.
RICHARD GUERCI: On 4/28/16, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right. And then we have an upgrade charge from that same date for Marianna, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, we do, right.
MR. AGNIFILO: All on Pam's credit card?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. The next date we have Pam's AMEX card closing date June 10th, 2016, right?
(Exhibit published.)
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And we have some entries here on the top. We have "Amazon Marketplace."
Do you see that?
RICHARD GUERCI: I do.
MR. AGNIFILO: And we have "Anthropology"?
RICHARD GUERCI: I do see that on June 3rd --
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And --
RICHARD GUERCI: -- and June 4th.
MR. AGNIFILO: And do you remember if those were some of the places -- some of the stores that had charges from Pam's credit card after she passed away, the Amazon Marketplace and Anthropology?
RICHARD GUERCI: They were, in fact, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Fast forward. This is Government Exhibit 722, page 280.
(Exhibit published.)
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you see that at the bottom? There you go.
And this is Pam Anne Cafritz's American Express card with a closing date of 10/11/16.
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you see that?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And it shows a number of airlines reservations here from 9/23/16. First we see Pam Cafritz traveling on American Airlines, it looks like, to Dallas.
Do you see that?
(Exhibit published.)
MR. AGNIFILO: That looks like a miscellaneous -- like a tax associated with an airlines reservation?
RICHARD GUERCI: I see that, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And then under it there is Pam Cafritz for a passenger ticket, a flight it looks like, between Albany and Dallas?
RICHARD GUERCI: I do see that, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And then under that we have Marianna, looks like a passenger ticket between Albany and Dallas?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And then under that we have Keith Raniere, a passenger ticket between Albany and Dallas?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, I see that as well.
MR. AGNIFILO: And I think a couple of pages later in that same monthly statement, we have -- we have Keith Donato.
(Exhibit published.)
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: I think we talked about him yesterday?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yeah, we referenced charges to him yesterday.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right.
And so this is a charge to Keith Donato from Pam Cafritz's credit card while she was alive, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, as part of your investigation, do you know if Pam and Marianna and Keith were living together?
RICHARD GUERCI: Not based -- not based on my knowledge. I'm not certain.
MR. AGNIFILO: So you were just looking at the finances?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. All right. We are going to look at the next -- it looks like the next month. This is Pam Anne Cafritz's American Express card, closing date 11/10/16.
Do you see that there?
(Exhibit published.)
RICHARD GUERCI: I do.
MR. AGNIFILO: I'm going to go to one particular page in this monthly statement, and we are going to look at the bottom.
(Exhibit published.)
MR. AGNIFILO: And on her credit card we see a -- it looks like a passenger airline travel for Marianna between, it looks like, to Washington National Airport?
RICHARD GUERCI: From Washington National, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes.
Then on the next page we have airline reservations for Pam Cafritz and for Keith Raniere, correct?
(Exhibit published.)
RICHARD GUERCI: I see that on 10/16, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And that's all on Pam's credit card and reflected in that monthly statement, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And I want to talk about -- you talked about a defense trust yesterday, right?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Do you have -- it's your chart, 705, and you were using it for reference.
Do you have it in front of you?
RICHARD GUERCI: I do not at this time, no.
MR. AGNIFILO: You don't? All right.
MR. AGNIFILO: Bear with us. Mr. Lesko is going to save the day.
RICHARD GUERCI: No problem.
MR. AGNIFILO: I have a copy. Mine has some notes on it, but I don't care.
THE COURT: For the witness?
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes, for the witness, Judge.
Can I approach the witness, Your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes, you may.
RICHARD GUERCI: Thank you.
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: Did you have reason to total up the number of law firms that were drawing money from the trust?
RICHARD GUERCI: Did I have reason to? I did do it.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. That's good enough.
You did do it?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, I did do it.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And what was the total number of law firms?
RICHARD GUERCI: I'd have to count them up. I don't recall specifically.
MR. AGNIFILO: Could you do that?
Let me ask you a question. It's more than 15?
RICHARD GUERCI: (No response.)
MR. AGNIFILO: I don't want to put words in your mouth. Take your time.
RICHARD GUERCI: (Witness complies.)
Yes, between law firms and individual lawyers that were paid, it's in excess of 15.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And could you tell, is it in excess of 20?
RICHARD GUERCI: It was in or about 20.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. All right.
RICHARD GUERCI: I do have a breakdown of it, but I don't have it before me.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right. That's all right.
And these were law firms that represented different people or entities that figured one way or another into the Government's investigation in this case, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: That's clearly my understanding, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And so it wasn't just individual human beings, it was also corporations, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: Law firms, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: No. No. I'm saying the law firms represented corporations.
RICHARD GUERCI: Oh, in the investigation?
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes.
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And one particular firm, do you know Quarles & Brady, is that one of the firms that got funding from the trust?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, they were clearly a firm that was paid from this trust.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And do you know if they represented Lauren Salzman?
RICHARD GUERCI: I don't know who they represented.
MR. AGNIFILO: I think one of the things we went through yesterday is, we went through -- and I think it's Government's Exhibit 801.
(Exhibit published.)
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you remember talking about this yesterday, Mr. Guerci, about the records of border crossings?
RICHARD GUERCI: I do, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And just to go through some of the contents of this --
THE COURT: That's in evidence, correct?
MR. AGNIFILO: It is. It is. It is, Judge.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
MR. AGNIFILO: It was put in evidence in the direct.
THE COURT: Right. Yes. Yes.
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So one of the entries here relates to someone named -- yes, Camila.
(Exhibit published.)
MR. LESKO: Objection, Your Honor.
MR. AGNIFILO: It's not in evidence?
(Exhibit no longer published.)
THE COURT: Is only the cover page in evidence; is that it?
MR. LESKO: And the last page.
MR. AGNIFILO: Is this something you prepared?
MR. AGNIFILO: Can we just show it to the witness, just the witness?
THE COURT: Sure. One minute.
Go ahead.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: Mr. Guerci, is this something that you prepared as part of Government's Exhibit 801?
RICHARD GUERCI: No, nothing I prepared, nor is it anything I've seen before.
MR. AGNIFILO: Did you ever see this before?
RICHARD GUERCI: That particular document?
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: You never saw this before?
RICHARD GUERCI: Not that document, no.
MR. AGNIFILO: Your Honor, can we have a sidebar for a second?
THE COURT: Go ahead.
(Sidebar held.)
(Continued on following page.)
(The following sidebar occurred outside the hearing of the jury.)
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. AGNIFILO: First, I'm somewhat confused because what we were given as 801 is this (indicating), which has all of these -- let me -- just give me one second, which has these attachments to it. I understood this was one document.
It also has a seal from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. So I don't know that -- I don't know what the basis would be to not have it in evidence.
MR. LESKO: Your Honor, the Exhibit 801 redacts all of the names, except for Lisa Chenoa, and it's just one page and it relates to the crossing of a person using the name Lisa Chenoa.
So there is no other document related to any other individuals who may have crossed.
So this is the exhibit. I'm holding it. It's a two-page exhibit with redactions on the first page.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right, so --
MS. GERAGOS: I think the confusion here is that wasn't the exhibit we were given. So Mr. Agnifilo -- when Mr. Agnifilo didn't object to it, it's because we -- the exhibit that we had was a lengthy exhibit.
So I think that there's a bit of confusion, because we're operating -- we're just --
MR. AGNIFILO: We were given this, yes, with certain redactions, but with all of the content as the exhibit.
MR. LESKO: Your Honor, this document was admitted. We showed it to the witness before Your Honor admitted the exhibit. It was shown to defense counsel at the time.
I mean, this is the exhibit. That's (indicating) not the exhibit.
MR. AGNIFILO: So, do you have an objection to putting this in, not through this witness?
MS. PENZA: I have to look at it. That's in your case. If you want to put on a case --
MR. AGNIFILO: We'll put it in on our case.
MS. PENZA: We have to review this is the short answer.
THE COURT: Can we go on to something else while you review it?
MR. LESKO: I'll also note, this witness has not reviewed these records.
MR. AGNIFILO: I am not going to do it through this witness, but I want the evidence in. We'll do it on our case, if we have to.
THE COURT: Then we don't have to decide anything now, which is exactly where I wanted to be.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right, then that's where we are. Thank you.
THE COURT: Thank you.
(Sidebar concluded.)
(Continued on the following page.)
(In open court - jury present.)
THE COURT: All right, let's move ahead.
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: I have a couple of questions about what's been admitted into evidence as Government's Exhibit 718.
(Exhibit published.)
MR. AGNIFILO: 718 is the "Certificate of Authority of Business Records" for American Express records concerning someone named Daniela Bergeron.
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, that's correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: And I think you covered these two things yesterday.
I think you said on June the 5th, 2017, there was a payment for $1,730.90, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: No, I said that was a credit.
MR. AGNIFILO: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. A credit.
RICHARD GUERCI: There was a credit for that amount --
MR. AGNIFILO: Right. Right.
RICHARD GUERCI: -- on that date.
MR. AGNIFILO: And before that, you have -- what is that? What's that entry at 5/28/17?
RICHARD GUERCI: There was a charge on the account to XR, LLC, for $1,730.90.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right. And then you're seeing the credit about a week or so later, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, on June 5th.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And did you -- as part of your research, did you see if that was something called Extreme Restraints, LLC?
RICHARD GUERCI: That's my understanding.
MR. AGNIFILO: And so this was a purchase by Daniela Bergeron?
RICHARD GUERCI: On her credit card.
MR. AGNIFILO: On her credit card?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: I want to go over some of the Kathy Russell records with you that you reviewed yesterday. This is Government's Exhibit 761 in evidence.
(Exhibit published.)
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you see that?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, I do.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And I think you discussed briefly one particular entry --
THE COURT: This is in evidence?
MR. AGNIFILO: It is, Judge, yes.
THE COURT: All right, go ahead.
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: -- one particular entry on December 24th, 2004, correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: That's one of the ones I highlighted, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right. And was this the -- this is a Sunoco, and was it in Clifton Springs?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes --
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
RICHARD GUERCI: -- for $26.36.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And that's in the United States between Rochester and Buffalo?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
(Continued on the following page.)
BY MR. AGNIFILO: (Continuing.)
MR. AGNIFILO: When you reviewed -- you reviewed records of one person crossing the border, a Lisa Chenoa; correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Did you review whether Kathy Russell crossed the border?
RICHARD GUERCI: I did not.
MR. AGNIFILO: And, finally, I want to go through some debit card records.
RICHARD GUERCI: Okay.
MR. AGNIFILO: And some other records, Key Bank records. And this is all in evidence as Government Exhibit 721. Okay. Now, I think you testified that at a certain point Keith Raniere started signing checks in his own name on Pam Cafritz's account; correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, that's correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: Let me show you some examples.
THE COURT: This is in evidence?
MR. AGNIFILO: It is, Judge. 721.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. AGNIFILO: So we're looking at 721, page 378.
(Exhibit published.)
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: And so here, for example, we have a check from January 20, 2017; correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And by this point Pam Cafritz has passed away; right?
RICHARD GUERCI: She has.
MR. AGNIFILO: And Keith Raniere is clearly signing his own name, Keith Raniere?
RICHARD GUERCI: He is.
MR. AGNIFILO: To your knowledge did the bank ever reject any of these checks?
RICHARD GUERCI: Not to my knowledge, no.
MR. AGNIFILO: And just to continue, he signs the next one Keith Raniere on January 27, 2017; correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: He does.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And then the next one on the same date, January 27, 2017; correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, he does.
MR. AGNIFILO: And he signs his own name regularly on all the checks that you had in that one report that you filled out, correct, the report that you did?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, for that period of time he did.
MR. AGNIFILO: You have no evidence that he ever signed Pam Cafritz's name as Pam Cafritz?
RICHARD GUERCI: Not to the best of my knowledge.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. What your chart showed is that at a certain point in time after Pam passed away Keith started signing Keith Raniere to that account; right?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, up to a certain point, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And I think what you also said was the bank processed all of those checks to your knowledge; correct?
RICHARD GUERCI: They did, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: I don't have anything else. Thank you.
THE COURT: Redirect?
MR. LESKO: Could I have just one moment?
(Pause in proceedings.)
MR. LESKO: Just a few questions, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. You may go ahead.
MR. LESKO: Thank you, Judge.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LESKO:
MR. LESKO: I just have a few questions for you, Investigator Guerci. Sir, you were asked questions about Mr. -- the defendant's role as the executor of Ms. Cafritz's estate, do you remember that on cross-examination?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. LESKO: Are you generally familiar with the duties and responsibilities of an executor of an estate?
RICHARD GUERCI: Generally.
MR. LESKO: Okay. So executors of estates are allowed, in limited instances, to incur expenses related to the administration of an estate?
RICHARD GUERCI: That's been my understanding, yes.
MR. LESKO: So, I'm showing you Government 725.
THE COURT: In evidence?
MR. LESKO: In evidence, yes.
BY MR. LESKO:
MR. LESKO: And I'm going to show you the fourth page of 725. So, in your experience, would the purchase of a cashmere sweater and a Donegal blazer for $4,457 be the sort of an expense that an executor be allowed to incur?
RICHARD GUERCI: Not based on my knowledge, no.
MR. LESKO: And would -- we went through probably dozens of -- strike that. Would chiropractic treatments be typically allowable expenses incurred by an executor?
RICHARD GUERCI: Not based on my knowledge, no.
MR. LESKO: So, Mr. Agnifilo asked you questions about the schedule you prepared related to the trust created by Ms. Bronfman to pay defense legal expenses. Do you remember that?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes.
MR. LESKO: And that's the trust, I think you testified previously, that Ms. Bronfman provided $14 million to?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, it is.
MR. LESKO: And Mr. Agnifilo asked you a specific question about a specific law firm, do you remember that?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, he did.
MR. LESKO: Did the -- did the majority or vast bulk of the payments out of that $14 million trust, did they go to just a few law firms?
RICHARD GUERCI: No, it went to many. The majority of it went to a few law firms.
MR. LESKO: Just a very few?
RICHARD GUERCI: Yes, the majority of the funds.
MR. LESKO: No further questions.
MR. AGNIFILO: I have one question.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you know if Marianna was buying things on Pamela's credit card, for instance the cashmere blazer?
RICHARD GUERCI: Do I know that? I do not.
MR. AGNIFILO: One last question, do you have any reason to think that Pam would object to these purchases?
MR. LESKO: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
With regard to the $14 million in the irrevocable trust, are you opining on or have an understanding of whether the payment of those funds to various lawyers for other defendants and the person creating the trust is appropriate or legal?
RICHARD GUERCI: Am I opining on that? I am not.
THE COURT: You are not.
THE COURT: Okay. Anything else?
MR. LESKO: No, Your Honor.
MR. AGNIFILO: No.
THE COURT: You may stand down. You are excused.
RICHARD GUERCI: Thank you.
(Witness excused.)
THE COURT: You may call your next witness.