1.James Loperfido — Cross/Redirect (Part 2)
490 lines(In open court; outside the presence of the jury.)
THE COURT: Appearances, please.
MS. PENZA: Moira Penza, Tanya Hajjar, Mark Lesko for the United States. Good morning, Your Honor.
Also at counsel table is Special Agent Michael Weniger and paralegal specialist Teri Carby.
THE COURT: Good morning.
MR. AGNIFILO: Good morning, Your Honor. Marc Agnifilo, Teny Geragos, Paul der Ohannesian, and Danielle Smith for Keith Raniere, who is with us this morning. Good morning, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Good morning. Please be seated.
All right. I have a letter which was sent to me at 5:00 this morning, is that right?
MR. AGNIFILO: That is us, Judge.
THE COURT: Okay. We don't need to discuss it until we finish with the cross-examination of the current witness. We can do it then. I can hear from the Government about these motions.
And we have James Loperfido; is that right?
MR. LESKO: Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Who is testifying and you have completed direct?
MR. LESKO: I did, Your Honor.
THE COURT: And now we have cross.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes.
THE COURT: Is the jury present?
Okay, let's bring in the witness and we will have cross-examination.
MR. AGNIFILO: Very good, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Please bring in the jury.
(Witness takes stand.)
THE COURT: Please be seated.
(Jury enters the courtroom.)
THE COURT: Please be seated. Good morning, members of the jury.
JURORS: Good morning.
THE COURT: All right, at this time we will continue with the witness James Loperfido. The direct examination has been completed.
Mr. Agnifilo, you may cross-examine the witness.
MR. AGNIFILO: Thank you, Your Honor.
JAMES LOPERFIDO, been previously sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: Good morning, Mr. Loperfido.
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Good morning, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: My name is Marc Agnifilo. I represent Keith Raniere. I am going to ask you some questions. If I ask you a question that's not clear to you, or you don't understand it or you want me to rephrase it, just ask me to do that and I'm happy to do that, okay?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, you said on direct examination on Friday that Keith was, in your view, the decisionmaker at NXIVM; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And you understood he created the NXIVM curriculum; is that right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And that he created the course materials; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And the coursework?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And the modules, he created all that stuff; right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I believe so.
MR. AGNIFILO: So he created the intellectual content to all of the teachings in NXIVM and ESP; is that right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you said you worked as an accountant for NXIVM for two years, I think you said, from the end of 2004 until the end of 2006; is that correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I believe so. I'm not positive, but I believe it's close to that.
MR. AGNIFILO: Around that period of time; right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you met with Keith Raniere one or two times?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Twice.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. In the entire time that you were working at NXIVM you met with him on two occasions; is that right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: How many times did you meet with Keith Raniere to discuss the accounting work that NXIVM did?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Never.
MR. AGNIFILO: How many times did you meet with Keith Raniere to talk about the different businesses that NXIVM would create?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I don't believe I did.
MR. AGNIFILO: And I think you said on direct examination you met with him once because there was some talk of an investment in gold of some sort. Do I have that; right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Just describe to the jury very briefly what you recall about that.
JAMES LOPERFIDO: It was a meeting in a home in north of Albany and it was a large meeting with a presenter that was talking about an investment in metals, I believe it was called.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And do you remember the other -- so that's one of the two times you met with Keith?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you remember the other time?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: It was a few days later.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
JAMES LOPERFIDO: In the same building and to -- I don't remember the whole conversation, but part of it was about the meeting a few nights before.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So other than these two meetings within a few days of each other, you never met with or spoke to Keith Raniere, fair to say?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: The person you dealt with mostly was Kathy Russell; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And Kathy Russell was the bookkeeper at NXIVM?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: The accountant, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Or the accountant. And in your view, she was an honest and thorough accountant; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: She was a thorough accountant, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, you didn't say honest. I said honest and thorough and you said thorough. Did you have a view that she wasn't honest?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, you said -- do you remember telling the FBI that she was the best bookkeeper that you ever worked with?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: When you told the FBI she was the best bookkeeper you ever worked with, what do you mean?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: She was very thorough, her working papers were excellent. When I asked for something, it may have taken a while to get it, but when she brought it to me they were thorough, they were good working papers.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And just tell the jury what you mean by working papers? What are working papers?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Worker papers are -- it's the base information that you use before you start the accounting process.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So what types of information would be among the working papers?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I would ask her to proof-out a line item for me in a profit and loss statement that she had prepared and she would present the documents to me and the paperwork to proof-out that line.
MR. AGNIFILO: What sort of documents would she present to you when you are asking for a profit and loss statement?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Everything from bills to a ledger sheet.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And she kept good records, meticulous records, I think you said; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: She always had the backup document at the ready; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Whenever I asked for it, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Sometimes in your business, when you work with companies, you don't get the backup document so quickly; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: But that was never the case with Kathy Russell, she always gave you the backup documents when you asked for them; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I believe that's correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. I think you talked at one point on direct examination that there was a task force to research different tax issues. Am I right about that?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Not just tax issues, but, yes, you are right about that.
MR. AGNIFILO: So what else did the task force look into?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Structure, business structure, how to handle particular issues. One in particular was what we talked about last week which was the large loss in the market.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you are talking about a commodities investment?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Did you have any direct involvement in that investment?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: No, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. So when you testified on direct examination on Friday about it, is it fair to say you were testifying about what you had heard from different people?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: That's correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: And none of what you testified to about this investment on Friday was anything you yourself saw; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: That's correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: Or conversations that you yourself were involved in with the people making the investments?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: That's correct, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: So really what you were doing is you were telling the Court and the jury things that you had heard from other people; right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: In this regard, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, on this task force were a number of people in addition to yourself, fair to say?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: One of the people on this task force was Joe O'Hara?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: Just tell us very briefly, who is Joe O'Hara?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Joe O'Hara was an attorney/consultant/businessman in the Albany area.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. How long have you known Mr. O'Hara?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Since probably around 2000. Around the year 2000.
MR. AGNIFILO: How did you meet him?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I met him through another client.
MR. AGNIFILO: And Mr. O'Hara provided legal services as a lawyer for NXIVM; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I can't answer that. I know he provided services; I'm not so sure there were always legal services.
MR. AGNIFILO: So when you say you were not sure there were legal services, are you suggesting that they were illegal services or that they were non-legal services?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Non-legal services.
MR. AGNIFILO: So, in other words -- I just want to understand your answer; you are not saying that he was providing illegal services to NXIVM; you're saying that, even as a lawyer, he was providing services to NXIVM that might not have been the typical thing that a lawyer would provide?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Now what sort of services would he provide?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Everything under the sun, I believe. Mostly of a business consulting nature.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Now, was he licensed to practice in New York?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I don't know.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Did you ever have that conversation with him?
MR. AGNIFILO: Did you ever have that conversation with anyone else?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Who did you have that conversation with?
MR. LESKO: Objection.
MR. AGNIFILO: You have to wait.
THE COURT: You can answer that question.
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I'm pretty -- I don't know who I did, but I think Nancy Salzman told me that he was not --
THE COURT: Don't tell me.
MR. AGNIFILO: Let me ask a different question just so it's focused.
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Without getting into what anybody said to you -- which I am not asking you --
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I'm sorry.
MR. AGNIFILO: That's all right.
Did you have conversations with other people, just yes or no did you, about whether Joe O'Hara was licensed to practice law in New York?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Who did you have that conversation with, not getting into what anyone might have told you?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Ms. Salzman.
MR. AGNIFILO: Anyone else?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Possibly.
MR. AGNIFILO: And do you recall when you would have had that conversation with Ms. Salzman?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Towards the end of my relationship with NXIVM.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, Mr. O'Hara is the one who brought you in to work at NXIVM; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Just tell us a little bit about how that happened.
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I was his accountant as well and he had asked me if I was interested in a new client that he had that needed -- that needed services, accounting and business consulting services.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Now, Mr. O'Hara, do you know if Mr. O'Hara was licensed to practice law in the District of Columbia?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Don't know.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, the -- and he was enthusiastic about NXIVM when he was asking you to come on to do accounting work; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you did come on to do accounting work?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And the person -- I think we talked about this, you worked mostly with Kathy Russell; is that the person you had the most contact with?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And Kathy Russell was a member of this task force as well; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Was Keith Raniere a member of this task force?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: No.
Well, can I take -- take no back?
MR. AGNIFILO: Go ahead. Please.
JAMES LOPERFIDO: In a way he was; Kathy couldn't make a decision without talking to Keith first. So we would have a meeting on a Friday and Kathy would say, well, I'll need to talk to Keith about this and at our next meeting we will discuss this further.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. One of the issues I think you said that you discussed was this issue of whether NXIVM had a connection to the State of Washington; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: That's one of the things that you talked about on direct examination, do you remember that?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Was the issue that Washington, the State of Washington, has a value-added tax? Do you remember that being the issue?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Just explain to the jury, very briefly, what is a value-added tax?
MR. LESKO: Objection.
THE COURT: You may answer that.
JAMES LOPERFIDO: It's a different type of tax based on -- based on assets. I don't remember the formula anymore in Washington, but for the most part it's based on assets. It's sort of like a sales tax that we would have in New York State.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right, and were you involved in trying to solve whatever the tax issue was with the State of Washington?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir. The issue was where was the cash register, where was the income taken, where was the money for the work performed in the State of Washington, where was it actually transacted.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right. So tell me if this is right: Part of the issue was does NXIVM, the business, have a sufficient presence in the State of Washington to be subject to this value-added tax in the State of Washington.
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Part of it.
MR. AGNIFILO: So part of the issue was trying to figure out what -- at the time, classes were being offered in the State of Washington; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I believe so, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And so the issue was whether the mere fact that NXIVM classes were being offered in Washington caused NXIVM to be subject to the State of Washington value-added tax, in a nutshell, fair to say?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you attempted to deal with this issue in a legal and appropriate way; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And NXIVM would bring in different professionals to deal with different legal and accounting issues that they had, fair to say?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you were dealing with them for the period of time you were there; right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Is there someone named Richard Mays?
Do you remember who that is?
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you remember him dealing with the Washington issue at all?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I'm sorry.
MR. AGNIFILO: That's fine.
Now, did you yourself, in regard to any work that you did for this task force, you yourself, did you ever report back to Keith on anything?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I don't believe so, no.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And in terms of you yourself, did Keith ever tell you -- other than the two meetings you talked about five minutes ago, ever tell you he wanted you to do a certain thing or not do a certain thing in terms of accounting or finances in any way?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Directly to me?
MR. AGNIFILO: Yeah, directly to you.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, you were paid on an hourly basis for your accounting work?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you were well paid, fair to say?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: In terms of the hourly rate that you were paid, you were paid more than your typical hourly rate for work of this type, fair to say?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: A little more, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: I think you said on direct examination that you took the five-day intensive; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: I think you said that you also found it useful or enjoyable, something along those lines?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I did.
MR. AGNIFILO: Just tell us very briefly what was useful or enjoyable about it?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: The five-day dealt with -- it's a long time ago, but the five-day dealt with your place in the universe and how you relate to people and how you understand people.
MR. AGNIFILO: And how was that useful or insightful for you?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: For me, it helped to put things in a perspective in how I relate to people and how I understand what they're saying to me.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And you went on to take the 11-day intensive; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you found that useful as well; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: What was different about the 11-day intensive from the five-day intensive?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I don't know.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. Do you remember what specifically you found useful or enjoyable or insightful about the 11-day intensive?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Well, I think it brought home a few things; one is the idea of consistency as a basis of integrity. I think it talked about the need to gather data before you jump to conclusions. There are many things. How you deal with things like being on the stand right now.
MR. AGNIFILO: I'm glad -- sorry.
And after the five-day intensive and the 11-day intensive, you decided to not take any more courses; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And that was a decision that you made; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you didn't take any more courses?
MR. AGNIFILO: Because you didn't want to?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: That's correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: Were you encouraged to take more courses?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: How were you encouraged?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Pretty much daily.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Tell us what people said.
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I can't remember words, but there was a lot -- there was pressure, daily pressure to get more involved, to move to Albany and to be part of this life-learning program that was ESP, NXIVM.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, you used the term pressure. Did anyone ever threaten you?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Of course not, no.
MR. AGNIFILO: Did anyone ever force you?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Possibly.
MR. AGNIFILO: And what do you mean by possibly?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: If I was going to stay with NXIVM as their accountant, I needed to get more involved.
MR. AGNIFILO: But you didn't take more courses and you did stay with NXIVM as their accountant?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Not really, no.
MR. AGNIFILO: When did you take the 11-day, do you remember when it was?
MR. AGNIFILO: You weren't fired because you wouldn't take more courses; right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: No. I don't know why I was fired to this day, but I was.
MR. AGNIFILO: Your Honor, can we have a brief sidebar?
THE COURT: All right.
(Sidebar held outside the hearing of the jury.)
(Continued on the next page.)
(The following occurred at sidebar.)
(Sidebar concluded.)
(Continued on the following page.)
THE COURT: We are ready.
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: Mr. Loperfido, no one at NXIVM ever said to you if you didn't take more classes you would be fired or they wouldn't use your services anymore, no one ever said that to you; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: That's a good question. I'm not sure if they did or not, but probably not.
MR. AGNIFILO: You don't remember anyone ever saying to you if you don't take more classes, Mr. Loperfido, we are going to fire you, we are not going to use you any more?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: They never used those words, no, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: You don't remember anyone ever saying that to you; right?
MR. AGNIFILO: When you worked in the NXIVM offices, you worked in or outside of the accounting office?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Who else worked in the accounting office other than Kathy Russell?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: There were a few part-time people. I don't know who they are.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And part of the work you would do is you would do income tax returns for various of the companies; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Part of it, yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And I think you did some income tax returns for individuals, you said?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And one of them was Pam Cafritz?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, I believe so.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And you understood Pam Cafritz came from somewhat of a wealthy family; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you did tax returns for Nancy Salzman; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And I think you said that, at different points, companies failed -- were not filing returns, do you remember saying that?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you know if those companies made income?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I can't tell you. I don't remember.
MR. AGNIFILO: So your testimony on direct examination was not, if I understand you right, that these companies owed income and, while they owed income, they didn't file tax returns; that was not your testimony?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I think you mean --
THE COURT: Excuse me. Owed income?
MR. AGNIFILO: Income.
THE COURT: What does it mean, owed income?
MR. AGNIFILO: No, I'm sorry, that they had income. Had income -- realized income.
Let me ask a different question.
THE COURT: Yes. Please clarify that.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: So it was never the case, as far as you can recall, that a company that realized income, that had income, did not pay taxes?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: The preparation of the returns really had nothing to do with the tax owed. It had to do with the need to file the return.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now there are two separate issues; there is -- one is the need to file the return. I understand that, but that's not what I am asking.
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I misunderstood.
MR. AGNIFILO: That's okay. I'm asking for any of the companies that did not file a return, did that same company realize or have income that tax year?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I just don't remember.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, you said that you created a number of different companies. NXIVM had a number of different companies; right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir, uh-hum.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you said this is related for reasons, it can reduce the overall tax; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: In some cases surely, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And this is a common thing that many businesses do; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Most definitely, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And there's nothing wrong with creating different companies to minimize your tax indebtedness; right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: That's correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: The way that the tax code works is the tax code will actually allow, under certain circumstances, companies to pay less tax depending on how many companies there are and what they do; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And NXIVM took advantage of these provisions in the tax code; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I believe so.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, I think you testified that Joe O'Hara got a $2 million dollar loan from the Bronfmans?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes. Bronfmans.
MR. AGNIFILO: And O'Hara, you said was a lawyer; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I believe so.
MR. AGNIFILO: And he did work for NXIVM; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: And he at one point was seeking a loan, a $2 million loan from the Bronfmans while the Bronfmans were working at NXIVM; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And to your knowledge, O'Hara, from time to time would provide services to the Bronfmans and others at NXIVM; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I don't know if he provided services to the Bronfmans; he did definitely to NXIVM.
MR. AGNIFILO: And he provided legal services to -- he provided services to NXIVM at a time when both Bronfmans were working at NXIVM; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And the money loaned to Mr. O'Hara was supposed to be used for a vineyard?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I'm not sure what all the money was used for; some of it was to be used it for a vineyard, yes, for land development.
MR. AGNIFILO: And Mr. O'Hara got the $2 million?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And then he didn't pay it back?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I don't know that.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you know if he paid any of it back?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I don't know.
MR. AGNIFILO: You were deposed on two different occasions in connection with this lawsuit; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: When you were deposed, do you remember sitting with Kristin Keeffe?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, she was at one of the -- the second deposition.
MR. AGNIFILO: Just tell us, who is Kristin Keeffe?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: She works at NXIVM.
MR. AGNIFILO: And what does she do?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Don't know.
MR. AGNIFILO: And why was she at your deposition?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I don't know that either.
MR. AGNIFILO: So she was physically present at your deposition?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I don't remember if she was in the room or not, but she was there.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you remember speaking to her before your deposition?
MR. LESKO: Objection.
MR. AGNIFILO: I'm not getting into the content, Judge.
THE COURT: You may answer.
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I just don't remember. I'm sorry.
MR. AGNIFILO: What sort of dealings did you have with Kristin Keeffe?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Hardly any.
MR. LESKO: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, Mr. O'Hara said that he had collateral for the loan, right, that he was providing property in Saratoga Springs as collateral for the $2 million loan, you are aware of that?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: No, I'm not.
MR. LESKO: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
The jury will disregard the answer.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you remember having conversations with anyone about whether Mr. O'Hara committed a fraud?
MR. LESKO: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. AGNIFILO: What involvement did you have in this loan process?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: None that I can remember.
MR. AGNIFILO: None that you can remember?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: You continued to provide services to Mr. O'Hara throughout this period; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And, in fact, at one point Mr. O'Hara declared bankruptcy; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: That's correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: And he owed you a substantial amount of money; right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: How much?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I don't remember, but it was a lot for me. I remember that part.
MR. AGNIFILO: And part of what happened in bankruptcy is you were thrown into the list of different creditors and, you know, were you ever paid in full?
MR. LESKO: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, what does Strategic Governmental Solutions do?
You talked about them on direct examination. What do they do?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Gee, that's a question. They were a company set up to help school districts deal with information issues relating to students in medical history of some sort -- I'm not positive.
MR. AGNIFILO: And that was one of Mr. O'Hara's companies?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: When was the last time you spoke to him?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I don't -- it's been a long, long time since I actually spoke to him.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, you talked about a movie that was shown at V Week, I think in 2006, do you remember that?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you went to V Week in 2006; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I believe I did.
MR. AGNIFILO: How many V Weeks did you go to?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I think just one.
MR. AGNIFILO: And did you pay to go?
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And why didn't you pay to go?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I was a guest of Ms. Salzman's.
MR. AGNIFILO: And I think you said on direct examination that, at this V Week, you all watched a documentary film; is that correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir. Well, all is kind of a broad term, but there are many people who watched the documentary.
MR. AGNIFILO: So you and others from NXIVM watched this documentary film; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: It was a documentary film by someone named Aaron Russo; is that right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I think so.
MR. AGNIFILO: And Aaron Russo was involved in making movies in the '80s; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Among other things, he made a movie "Trading Places" with Eddie Murphy; right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: That's correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: The documentary you showed at V Week was called "America, Freedom to Fascism"; right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I'm not sure, but it sounds right.
(Continued on next page.)
EXAMINATION CONTINUES BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: And you actually arranged to get that movie; correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: That's correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you contacted something called Cinema Libre; am I saying that right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Probably, yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: And was this a studio?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: No, it's a distributor.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And who did you -- how did you go about securing this film so you could all watch it at V Week?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I was asked to -- I was asked to -- to get the film, and -- and I was able to secure the film, the documentary for --
MR. AGNIFILO: And so you secured this documentary, right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And at the time did you know who Aaron Russo was?
MR. AGNIFILO: And you used your projection equipment, correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, is this your personal projection equipment or someone else's?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: It's a non-profit that we set up in my hometown to show films outdoors and in nursing homes in and around the area.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So you had this projection equipment at the ready?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right?
And you brought your projection equipment to V Week, right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you secured this film by Mr. Russo, right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you showed the movie to the people who were in attendance to watch the movie, correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And the movie was about, among other things, whether the IRS has the legal right to collect taxes, right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you knew what the movie was about, didn't you?
MR. AGNIFILO: You didn't know what the movie was about?
MR. AGNIFILO: So you arranged to get the movie from the people who have the movie, you bring your projection equipment and you, yourself, were the projector, correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: You operated the projection equipment to show the movie that you had gotten and had delivered to V Week, right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you said that you were concerned by the content of the movie?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Did you stop the movie?
MR. AGNIFILO: And you said that you wanted to have debate after the -- discussion after the movie?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Discussion, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Wasn't the purpose of the movie to foster debate around these issues?
MR. LESKO: Objection.
THE COURT: That's sustained.
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: Why -- why did you get the movie? You --
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I was asked to get the movie.
MR. AGNIFILO: Who asked you?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Ms. Russell.
MR. AGNIFILO: And wasn't -- didn't -- weren't you involved in conversation with Ms. Russell that this would be an interesting topic of debate?
MR. LESKO: Objection.
THE COURT: You may answer that.
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I don't believe I did. They asked me -- you know, it was something I did often for a number of years before that and -- and having a full summer film series in a park. I had the ability to get the film, they asked me if I could and I did. I didn't think much more of it, other than that it was entertainment for that evening.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right, but you arranged for the film -- you arranged in every manner for the film to be shown. You got the movie, itself, correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: You showed the movie on your projection equipment, correct?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Your Honor, I have nothing else at this point. Thank you.
THE COURT: Redirect?
MR. LESKO: Briefly, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LESKO:
MR. LESKO: Good morning.
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Good morning.
MR. LESKO: I just have, I think, a couple of questions.
On cross-examination you were asked about meetings involving this large loss, this large trading loss.
Do you remember that?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. LESKO: Okay. So -- and I think you said you weren't involved in the actual trade, itself, is that right?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: That's correct.
MR. LESKO: So what was your role with respect to that -- how large was the loss again?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: It was --
MR. AGNIFILO: Objection, Your Honor.
THE COURT: You may answer.
JAMES LOPERFIDO: It was many millions of dollars. It was -- it was a big sum and the question was, how does -- how do the entities, whichever entity it was that it was booked under, would handle it.
MR. LESKO: And -- and handle it, are you talking about the tax consequences --
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. LESKO: -- of the loss?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes, sir.
MR. LESKO: Do you know where that money originally came from?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I was told it came from the Bronfmans.
MR. LESKO: And you talked about some of the helpful aspects of the intensive that you attended, on cross-examination, do you remember that?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: Yes.
MR. LESKO: Were there unhelpful aspects of the intensives?
JAMES LOPERFIDO: I can't -- I know there were. I can't tell you. I don't remember.
MR. LESKO: Okay.
MR. LESKO: No further questions, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Anything else?
MR. AGNIFILO: Nothing, Judge.
THE COURT: All right, the witness is excused. You may stand down, sir.
(Witness steps down and exits the courtroom.)
THE COURT: Can we have a sidebar?