7.Nicole — Direct (Part 1)
978 lines(Sidebar held outside the hearing of the jury.)
(Continued on the next page.)
(Sidebar ends.)
(End of sealed portion.)
(Lunch recess.)
AFTERNOON SESSION
(In open court; jury not present.)
(Judge NICHOLAS G. GARAUFIS enters the courtroom.)
THE COURT: Please be seated.
Anything before we get started?
MS. PENZA: Just a reminder to any sketch artist that they are not to sketch this witness.
THE COURT: Yes. I just want to remind the sketch artist that the face of the witness is not to be sketched.
About how long is the direct of this witness?
MS. PENZA: I'm hoping to finish by lunch time tomorrow.
THE COURT: All right. Let's bring in the witness.
(Witness takes stand.)
THE COURT: Let's bring in the jury.
(Jury enters the courtroom.)
THE COURT: The witness should remain standing. Everyone else may be seated.
The Government may Presbyterian its next witness.
MS. PENZA: Thank you, Your Honor. The Government calls Nicole.
COURT CLERK: Please raise your right hand.
(Witness sworn.)
NICOLE, called by the Government, having been duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: Please have a seat.
THE COURT: You may inquire of Nicole.
MS. PENZA: Thank you, Your Honor.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. PENZA:
MS. PENZA: Good afternoon, Nicole.
MS. PENZA: How old are you?
MS. PENZA: Where did you grow up?
MS. PENZA: Can you describe what your childhood was like?
NICOLE: Yeah, it was -- I grew up somewhere that was very much like outdoors, so it was pretty lucky. I got to be outdoors all the time and go skiing and bike riding. I have an older sister and a younger brother and my mom and dad. And, yeah, I loved school and I loved acting.
MS. PENZA: So let's talk about your family for a second. You said you have an older sister and a younger brother?
MS. PENZA: So you are in the middle?
MS. PENZA: And you said -- were you close to your family growing up?
MS. PENZA: Now, you mentioned acting. Is that something you developed a love of early on in your life?
NICOLE: Yes. I think the first time that I was ever on stage I was four and that was in like Hanz Christiansen Andersen story.
And when I was nine, I played Charlie Brown, which I still remember my speech from. And when I was in fist grade, I did the Wizard of Oz and I played Dorothy and that's kind of when I knew that acting was what I wanted to do.
MS. PENZA: Were your parents supportive of your acting when you were growing up?
NICOLE: Very supportive. Like after that, after that show with the Wizard of Oz, I had told my mom this is what I wanted to do and they didn't want me to go like a performing arts high school because I would have had to go pretty far from home, but every summer I would go to like a different place around the United States and do a summer program for acting, dancing, whatever it was.
MS. PENZA: Now, did you continue acting through high school?
MS. PENZA: And when you were in high school, did anything happen that made it more difficult to keep up the acting?
NICOLE: Yes. So, my freshman and sophomore year of high school, we had like an amazing drama program at my school, and then it got cut because of California budget cuts. So I had to drive like an hour one way and hour back to go to rehearsals. And sometimes at community college I did a play at. And then also they were putting on a really big performance at, like, one of the bigger cities, so I would just drive very far to those rehearsals.
MS. PENZA: That bigger performance, what show was that?
MS. PENZA: Was there any effect on your social life in high school having to commute so far for rehearsals?
NICOLE: So, originally, when they offered me the part, I was kind of bummed because it would mean that I would have to miss every Saturday football game to go to rehearsals, but it was 100 million percent worth it.
MS. PENZA: And after high school, did you continue on to college?
NICOLE: I did. I applied to NYU, UCLA, and Loyola Marymount University, to their acting programs, and I ended up going to Loyola Marymount University, which is in Los Angeles.
MS. PENZA: And how far did you go in college at that point?
NICOLE: I just did one year. And then after my freshman year, I was kind of trying to decide what I wanted to do. I had an agent at the time and I had started auditioning and I was -- was not sure if I should stay in school getting a theater major or just go study with acting coaches in Hollywood and I decided to take some time off from school.
MS. PENZA: Did you move to Hollywood?
MS. PENZA: How did you like Hollywood?
NICOLE: Hollywood would be like an overwhelming place sometimes. I liked it, but it was also -- being 19 and kind of thrown into that world was a lot.
MS. PENZA: Did you -- after you moved to Hollywood, were you studying acting at that point?
NICOLE: Yeah, with a lot of different -- not a lot, but, like, you try out different classes and you might click with one teacher or like the way they teach or you might try another one or you might go to someone for strictly commercials and then someone else for more stage work. I was always -- I was always taking classes.
MS. PENZA: At some point did you take up an acting program in London?
NICOLE: Yes. So after my first year in Hollywood I was -- I just kind of needed a break and I asked my parents if I could go study Shakespeare in London. So I went to London Academy of Dramatic Arts and Music and I studied -- I did their summer Shakespeare course.
MS. PENZA: How did you like that?
MS. PENZA: Did you develop a love of theater versus some of the other work that you were doing?
NICOLE: Well, I -- I mean, I love all of acting. But they have their different things. Like, you know, film and television is great, but there's something about being on stage that I just really loved and I found it easier. When you're on stage, you, like, can -- you take a character through the whole story, right. Like every night you're taking this character through the whole story and you're kind of like living it and it's a little bit different each night because you don't know how the audience will react to things. Whereas in film and television, it's a lot of stop and go. The final product is wonderful, but, like, the actual process of doing it is a lot of stop and go and I found that harder. For me, it's like hard being in a certain -- I don't know. Like, you're sitting around all day and it's okay, go do this insanely emotional scene and you're like wait, what? So, I just like the free line of being on stage.
MS. PENZA: So you were in -- how long were you in Hollywood at that point?
NICOLE: When I got back from London, I was in Hollywood for another eight years, I think, seven and a half, eight years.
(Continued on following page.)
EXAMINATION CONTINUES BY MS. PENZA:
MS. PENZA: And what type of work did you do just generally during that time?
NICOLE: A little bit of everything. I mean I -- I -- off and on I also waited tables and had other side jobs, but I worked. I modeled. I worked in commercials. I did web series and television and some smaller movies. Majority of what I started to kind of get really good at was the commercial -- was commercials.
MS. PENZA: So you had success doing commercials?
MS. PENZA: Now, at some point did you make a decision that you wanted to refocus things?
NICOLE: Yeah. I -- I had been in LA for, you know, including college, almost ten years and I kinda just wanted a change. I really love how people view acting in New York, or I like the work ethic of actors in New York and I'd always wanted to move to New York, but it's very easy to make up an excuse of why you can't go or why it's complicated to get there. And I thought, you know, I'm almost 28 and I -- you know, eventually I'm gonna have a family and settle down, so, like, if I'm gonna move to New York and, like, try to do some stage work, I better do it now. And so I decided to.
MS. PENZA: Okay, so when approximately was that that you made the decision to move?
NICOLE: It was like, maybe like -- like really made the decision, it was probably like Novem -- like end of November, maybe December of 2014. Is that right?
MS. PENZA: Do you remember?
NICOLE: 'Cause -- 'cause I moved -- yeah, it would have been the very, very end of 2014 because then I think I moved in 2015, if I'm correct. So it obviously, like, takes a little bit of time to plan all those things, and I had a lot of logistical things to plan.
MS. PENZA: So, you said something about the work ethic of actors in New York.
What did you mean by that?
NICOLE: Just like New York is -- is a tougher place than Los Angeles, in a positive way, how I viewed it. So, like, if -- New York actors, I think it's very common, New Yorkers in general I think it's very common for them to have more than one job or to, like, be like really focused on whatever craft they're doing. But they might do more than one thing because it's really hard to live in New York.
And there's just more of a -- I'm totally generalizing because I know some incredible actors in Los Angeles as well, they just take their -- they take their craft very seriously and I appreciated that. I wanted to be around that.
MS. PENZA: Was there -- was there also something to the fact that in New York there's -- did you find that in New York there was a certain level of respect for actors, even if they have other -- other jobs?
NICOLE: Yeah, like you can -- you can wait tables and be an actor in New York and they're just like, Oh, yeah, you haven't broken through yet or You just need to pay your rent or whatever. It's not looked down upon.
Whereas, in LA it's a little more like, Oh, no, you're a waitress, not an actress.
And it's kinda like, alright, you don't get as much respect even though you may be working just as hard at both jobs.
MS. PENZA: Now, did you have to -- did you have to put any plans in motion in order to be able to move to New York?
NICOLE: Yeah. When I moved Los Angeles my parents had purchased the apartment that I lived in and I paid the mortgage, so we had to decide what we were going to do if I wasn't living there. Either it was going to be rented out, or it ended up that my dad came down and remodeled it and they decided to sell it.
So I was -- and I -- I lived there for pretty much the whole time I was in LA. So it was the only other home I'd really had aside from where I grew up. So it was really hard to -- it was a big decision to leave that and -- and have it sold. Like, I couldn't come back to it. And, you know, I -- I gave up kind of everything in order to move to New York. The house that I lived in, the car that I was driving, and all of my things because I just thought, no, like I want to -- I want to live in New York.
MS. PENZA: And did you have -- did you have a job that lined up in New York?
NICOLE: I did not have a job lined up yet. I was planning on finding a restaurant job when I got to New York, which I figured would not be too difficult. But I also had just luckily, it was -- excited because my commercial agents in Los Angeles were opening an office in New York. So I was like, oh, this is -- this is perfect. Like, I'll have -- I'll at least have that, so I can immediately start auditioning commercially.
And then you kind of can sometimes work your way up from if you enter in on the commercial level, work your way up at an agency. And then I figured I would get a job.
MS. PENZA: Now, just a little bit.
In terms of doing commercial work, when you've done a commercial, how do you end up getting paid? Like, do you sometimes get checks after?
NICOLE: Yeah. So it's -- it's similar to movies in the sense that you get paid for the day that you're shooting. And then every time -- if -- if the commercial goes national and if it's a SAG commercial, which were the ones that -- well, that was all I did because I was SAG at that point, you get paid how many times the commercial plays.
MS. PENZA: And what if --
THE COURT: I'm sorry. SAG, I am going to ask what SAG is.
THE COURT: What SAG?
BY MS. PENZA:
MS. PENZA: Is that a union for actors?
NICOLE: Yeah, it's the union that controls, like helps what actors -- helps protect actors, what they're paid and kind of -- they -- it -- the union keeps track of how many times a commercial is paid -- played and how much you get and how -- you know, you pay dues each year. And it's a union.
MS. PENZA: Now, when you were -- when you were about to move to New York, was anything -- was there something else that was proposed to you before you would actually move to the city?
NICOLE: Yes. Yes. When I was contemplating moving or, like, figuring out the logistics of moving, the -- I guess he wasn't my boyfriend at the time, we weren't dating. But my ex -- one of my exes had mentioned this acting program that was happening in upstate New York called The Source.
MS. PENZA: And what was the name -- what was the name of your ex- boyfriend?
MS. PENZA: And who is Mark Hildreth?
MS. PENZA: Is he a successful actor?
NICOLE: Yeah, he's been pretty successful. I mean that's how he makes his living and he's done a lot of different television shows and voiceover, I think, as well.
MS. PENZA: But he makes his living working full-time as an actor?
MS. PENZA: And what was the name of the program he mentioned to you?
MS. PENZA: Was The Source affiliated with any other organization?
MS. PENZA: Had you heard of NXIVM/ESP prior to The Source -- prior to Mark Hildreth mentioning The Source to you?
NICOLE: Yes. Mark had mentioned to me, when we first started dating Mark had mentioned or had told me about this program that he was interested in called ESP. And that was 2013.
MS. PENZA: And what did he tell you at that time?
NICOLE: I think it came up because we were like talking, like, character and scripts. We met in -- in an acting class. We had the same acting coach, who is wonderful. She's a casting director/acting coach, she's amazing. We -- we met through that.
So I think we were like talking about character work or something of that sort and he -- which then got into, like, a deeper conversation and then he said that he was part of this program that, like, worked on, like, making yourself a better person and was a really interesting way to kind of like understand humanity and psychology.
And I was like: Oh, that sounds interesting. It kinda sounded like something that I had done when I was a kid called Landmark. And so I was like: Oh, interesting. Like, cool. You know, you're talking about character stuff. And I don't know, I was like: Well, that's great.
MS. PENZA: Did he encourage you to get involved in NXIVM at that point?
NICOLE: Not at that particular conversation, but yeah, eventually down the line he said that he really thought it would help me.
You know, I was -- for me, acting in LA I was always, like, you're trying to figure out how you can become better. You know, acting is tough and sometimes your own fears get in the way of being in the audition room. Like, I would get really nervous in the audition room. I was always trying to, like, better myself in any way. And you also want to always try and understand different characters because that's part of your job.
So he said that he thought it might help. And --
MS. PENZA: Did he tell you -- did he tell you anything about the people who were involved in NXIVM?
MS. PENZA: And what did he tell you about Clare Bronfman?
NICOLE: Just that she was a heiress. I guess the heiress to -- at the time he just said she was the heiress to the Seagram's fortune and that she was -- that she was like a huge fan of the curriculum. And -- and he mentioned a couple other -- other people. Oh, Mark Vicente.
MS. PENZA: And who was Mark Vicente?
NICOLE: He was -- he was a director and he directed a movie that I had seen called What the Bleep? And I think he mentioned --
MS. PENZA: Did he mention any other actors to you?
NICOLE: Well, I knew -- I had known that his -- his ex Kristin, who was an actress from Smallville, was -- had done the program with him and then their other friend Allison.
MS. PENZA: So Kristin, what's Kristin's last name?
NICOLE: It's like K-R-E-U-K, I think. I don't know how to pronounce it correctly. Kreuk -- Kristin Kreuk.
MS. PENZA: Was she one of the stars of Smallville?
MS. PENZA: And what is Smallville?
NICOLE: It's like a superhero show, sort of. It's like a play on Superman. I don't really watch the show, but from what I understand it's a play on Superman.
MS. PENZA: Was it a popular television show?
MS. PENZA: And did it run for a long time?
MS. PENZA: And so you said he also mentioned Allison Mack?
NICOLE: Yeah, because they had all started around the same time. They were all really good friends.
MS. PENZA: And Allison Mack had also been on Smallville?
MS. PENZA: Is being on a television show that lasts ten years, is that considered pretty successful among actors?
NICOLE: Yeah, absolutely. Oh, my gosh. It's like a steady great job for ten years. Yes, that was very, yes, lucky.
MS. PENZA: Before you took the first NXIVM class, was anyone else of prominence mentioned to you?
MS. PENZA: And when you say Emi, do you mean Emiliano Salinas?
MS. PENZA: And who was he?
MS. PENZA: At some point was Richard Branson mentioned to you?
NICOLE: Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. Yes, so I -- what Mark said was that there had been a -- like, so basically what he was at was -- was suggesting that I do is the first five-day. And he said that they had held a five-day curriculum on one of -- or on Richard Branson's island. So that sounded cool.
MS. PENZA: Who is Richard Branson?
NICOLE: He's the English billionaire, I believe now. I don't -- I don't know, but he's pretty cool.
MS. PENZA: So what was the effect on you of Mark Hildreth mentioning these people?
NICOLE: Just sounded legitimate. Like this -- that this was a -- a program that a lot of successful and, you know, both business-minded and successful actors were a part of.
MS. PENZA: And so did you end up taking the first five-day intensive?
NICOLE: Yes. I -- so, when he -- when he told me how much it was I was a little bit like, I can't --
MS. PENZA: Well, let me ask you that.
MS. PENZA: That was going to be my next question.
So, did he -- before you took it, did Mark Hildreth tell you how much it would cost?
MS. PENZA: How much did he tell you?
NICOLE: So he said it was 3,000, but if I, like, signed up in a -- in a certain amount of time, I think it was like five days, that then it would be 2500.
MS. PENZA: Was the amount of the course concerning to you?
MS. PENZA: So what did you do, did you discuss that with Mark Hildreth?
NICOLE: I did, and he said that he believed in it so much that he would pay -- pay for me and I could pay him back as I could.
MS. PENZA: And so did you end up taking it?
MS. PENZA: Before you took the five-day intensive, did you do any research yourself about NXIVM?
NICOLE: No. So, Mark said that the best way to go into -- into the five-day was to go in completely open-minded and -- and to not really, like, have any expectations. So to not -- to not Google anything because it was better if you just went in, like, very open-minded.
And that's fine, I -- I know how to do that. I can -- I can do that. But I think I asked something like, okay, you know, like maybe showed some hesitation because he said that some people didn't really like -- some people didn't understand what they were doing and so had, like, written negative things. And, like, I just didn't need to pay attention to those because sometimes when people don't understand something, they judge it.
And I was like, alright. Again, I can -- I can try -- try to understand that.
MS. PENZA: Okay. So when you said they don't understand, Mark -- correct me if I'm wrong, but Mark Hildreth is saying to you, some other people --
MS. PENZA: Let me just finish the question.
MS. PENZA: It's okay.
-- that some other people who have written things online had gotten it wrong about NXIVM and ESP?
MS. PENZA: And that he didn't want you to be influenced by that?
MS. PENZA: And so, did you agree not to research it?
MS. PENZA: So you did take the five-day?
MS. PENZA: And what did you think about it?
NICOLE: I thought it was -- I thought it was okay. Like I learned some cool, like interesting things.
Yeah, I mean I like to learn and I can kind of get something out of anything. Just -- I like to learn, but, yeah, I thought it was -- it was interesting for a lot of reasons.
MS. PENZA: What do you mean by that?
NICOLE: There was just -- there was a few things that I was not the biggest fan of or just kind of seemed like, I don't know if it was -- if the right word is off or just unnecessary.
MS. PENZA: So what were those things?
NICOLE: I think the biggest thing to me was that there was a very big secrecy aspect. Like you couldn't talk about what you were learning. And I think that felt weird to me because if you're learning something cool, why would you not want to share it with other people is how I felt.
And also, I like to -- you know, when I learn something cool I like call my little brother and I'm like, Guess what I learned today? Or, Dude, you won't believe what I learned today; and they were basically saying you can't do that, which seemed really weird to me; or I just wasn't a big fan of it because I wanted to call and tell my brother.
MS. PENZA: Was there anything else that made you -- that made you uncomfortable or that you found, I don't want to put words in your mouth, I forget which exact words you used.
NICOLE: Yeah, just unnecessary, I guess, is the word I used.
But there was this whole thing with sashes and bowing when you went in and out of the room. I don't know, you're learning -- you're supposed to be learning about business and humanity. I just didn't really see why we needed to bow when we went in and out of the room. Just a personal thing, but that was like -- and then the way that they explained it was that it was similar to, like, karate or like entering a I believe it's called a dojo or -- in martial arts or karate, that that was why the sashes were different colors and that's why you had to bow in and out of the room.
MS. PENZA: Did you have a background in karate?
MS. PENZA: And yet you still found this unnecessary?
NICOLE: Well, yeah. I'm not in karate. I'm like in a class for five days. Like, I don't know, that was just my personal opinion.
MS. PENZA: Were there any aspects -- did you grow up religious?
MS. PENZA: Were there any aspects that made you feel uncomfortable in that regard?
NICOLE: At that point, I mean they seemed to idolize, like there was the whole Prefect/Vanguard thing, but I had never heard -- the only way I knew what prefect was was from the Harry Potter books, which just meant like you're kind of in charge of like the -- underclassmates. So that was the only time I'd ever heard of that word. So I was sort of like, I don't know, what does that mean?
But later on it was kind of like the idolization of the person -- Keith, who created everything, that felt weird to me, but at this point it didn't really even register.
MS. PENZA: Now, after you took the five-day intensive, did you -- obviously you take The Source later on, but between the five-day intensive and taking The Source, did you take any additional curriculum?
MS. PENZA: Was there any encouragement by anyone for you to take additional curriculum?
MS. PENZA: Sorry, I just want to make sure, when the five-day ended?
NICOLE: Yes, when the first five-day ended they -- I think they had like two different things. You could either go into the middle five-day or you could pay for the middle five-day and the last five-day, or I think you had to pay for both at the same time.
I don't totally remember, but it was a lot of money whatever it was. And -- or you could do, like, ESP ongoing, which I think were like weekly meetings, something of that sort. But they pitch you on a few different things when you finish.
MS. PENZA: Okay. And you did not take any additional curriculum between those two?
MS. PENZA: Would Mark Hildreth ever talk to you about taking additional curriculum?
NICOLE: Yeah, he used to drive me nuts because we'd be in like acting class, we weren't even necessarily -- we weren't dating anymore, but we'd be -- we were still in acting class together and I'd be struggling with something and he'd been like, You know -- you know, the ongoing ESP would really fix this problem; like ongoing ESP.
And I'd be like: Shut up, like don't care. Like don't -- I don't know, it just -- it drove me nuts.
MS. PENZA: At this point in time did you have any understanding of how the compensation structure of NXIVM/ESP worked?
MS. PENZA: Did you understand whether Mark Hildreth would receive any commission or anything from you taking courses?
NICOLE: I think, like, yeah. Like I was aware that there was some kind of way that it -- that it worked, like if you signed people up. But you also had -- you had to sign people up to get to, like, the next level. But I believe that, yeah, I was kinda aware of it, but I don't remember thinking about it too much.
MS. PENZA: Later on would you -- not to skip ahead -- but given your later involvement in NXIVM, did you become more aware of kind of this -- the role of the focus on enrollment?
MS. PENZA: And so just very generally, what is the -- what is the import of enrolling within the NXIVM organization?
NICOLE: I'm not even sure I could tell you 'cause I -- I -- all I remember is that you have to -- you have to enroll two people if you want to go to the next color.
MS. PENZA: And no, no, I'm sorry. I'm not asking you to give any details, but in general, are people looking to enroll other people?
NICOLE: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, you're always like looking to enroll or enroll other people, either -- yeah.
MS. PENZA: Now, let's go back to this The Source that you end up taking, and you take that in April 2015?
MS. PENZA: Why did you decide to take The Source at that point in time?
NICOLE: So, right when I was planning my whole move to New York, actually like Mark and I had been paired up together for -- to do like a scene in class. So we were like rehearsing a lot and he was like, you know -- I think he actually said: It doesn't have to do with ESP, so like don't get mad at me, but he was like, there -- there's -- there's another course that they were working -- that they were working on that was about psychology and acting. Like it was -- it was psychology and acting mixed together, and they had been working on this program for a while and it was supposed to be like really cool and tailored to artists. And -- and I -- and I felt that sounded really interesting.
MS. PENZA: Did the timing seem like it was going to work out as well?
NICOLE: Well, that was the other thing is the timing was like perfect. So, it was supposed to be a five-week or it was a five-week course. And I was, like, moving out of my apartment in LA and I hadn't gotten a job yet in New York and I hadn't found an apartment yet in New York. So, like, when in your life do you have kind of five weeks where you don't have to also pay rent, you know, while you're staying somewhere else? Because it was going to be in upstate New York.
So I wasn't going to have to pay for going to this camp and -- or this program and pay for my rent at the same time, and it just kinda like worked out really well. So I thought, great. Like, what a cool way to start really, like, digging into acting in New York would be to, like, go to this psychology and acting program. And then right when it was done, move into New York City.
MS. PENZA: So the program was five weeks long, is that right?
(Continued on the following page.)
BY MS. PENZA (Continuing):
MS. PENZA: And how much did it cost?
NICOLE: It was, again, 8,000. And then if you signed up within a certain amount of time, it was 6,000.
MS. PENZA: And how did you pay for that?
MS. PENZA: Did you eventually pay them back?
MS. PENZA: Now, when you were -- where was -- you said it was held in Upstate New York?
MS. PENZA: Do you remember the town that it was held in?
MS. PENZA: So, it was in Albany.
And had you been to Albany before?
MS. PENZA: Who taught The Source class?
MS. PENZA: And had you met her before then?
MS. PENZA: Where were you staying while you were taking The Source?
NICOLE: So, The Source was in, like, a little building that was kind of separated from everything else, sort of in the middle of nowhere, and there were four rooms and a kitchen underneath it. So, it kind of looked like a ballet studio and then underneath was, like, four rooms and a kitchen. So, I slept down there.
MS. PENZA: Did you have a car with you?
MS. PENZA: Was it difficult to do anything other than be in --
NICOLE: Yeah, I didn't realize, like, quite how isolated it would be. Like, there wasn't a grocery store you could walk to. I mean, you couldn't do anything except run, which I did; like not like "run," but, yes, exercise run, running.
MS. PENZA: So, what did you do?
Just generally, what would your days be like while taking the five-week Source?
NICOLE: So, I thought it was going to be, like, all day. That's sort of how prior things like this I had been to, you had classes, like, all day long. In this, it ended up only being the afternoon. They had, like, a different course going on in the morning.
So, we would go from, like, noon 'til four or five, and then we might have some homework and stuff. So, in the mornings, I would journal or think about kind of what I wanted my life in New York City to look like or I'd go on a run and go to class in the afternoon.
MS. PENZA: So, this was during The Source, this was the first time you met Allison Mack?
MS. PENZA: What did you think of her?
NICOLE: I thought she was really passionate about The Source. She was nice and she just seemed, like, very -- The Source seemed like her baby. And she was, like -- and she was very passionate. She seemed like she was a very passionate actress.
Obviously, she had been on this television show for ten years, but she was really interested in stage as well. We talked about Shakespeare sometimes. But she just seemed like a serious actress, or she wanted to be; whether or not she was taken seriously yet she wanted to be a serious actor.
MS. PENZA: Was Keith Raniere mentioned during The Source?
MS. PENZA: At this point in time, had you met Keith Raniere?
MS. PENZA: Would you later meet Keith Raniere?
MS. PENZA: Do you see Keith Raniere in the courtroom today?
MS. PENZA: Can you identify him by an article of clothing?
MS. PENZA: Your Honor, I'd ask that it be noted that the witness has identified the Defendant.
THE COURT: Yes, the witness has identified the Defendant.
MS. PENZA: Thank you, your Honor.
MS. PENZA: Had Keith Raniere been mentioned in the first class that you took as well?
MS. PENZA: Yes?
MS. PENZA: So, when you're taking -- Mark Hildreth, before you took it, before you took The Source, told you that The Source had nothing to do with NXIVM, ESP.
Did you come to learn that that wasn't true?
NICOLE: Yeah, yeah, I don't -- I don't know that he said it had nothing to do with it, it was just, like, a different program. Yeah, it was a different program that they were working on.
MS. PENZA: Was there a lot -- during The Source, you said that the Defendant appeared in a number of videos.
THE COURT: You have to say yes or no.
MS. PENZA: Now, during the -- while you were taking The Source, did you have any impressions of Allison Mack's relationship to the Defendant?
NICOLE: Yeah, they seemed very close. Like, he had kind of mentored her in creating The Source, is the impression I got at that time.
MS. PENZA: Would Allison Mack talk about the Defendant during The Source?
MS. PENZA: Can you just kind of describe a little bit what that was like?
NICOLE: Just about how they had created together -- I mean, he's in all The Source videos, which are what we would discuss in class, and she would just talk about -- you know, like, for The Source, he was referred to as Mr. Raniere. So, she would be Mr. Raniere said this and Mr. Raniere kind of helped us come up with this.
It was a few actors that had worked with him to make The Source, was my understanding, or build The Source.
MS. PENZA: I think earlier on you mentioned that at some point you noted that there was an idolization of the Defendant.
NICOLE: That became the most clear to me when I was at the first V-Week. Before that, it just -- it didn't register to me as much until the first V-Week.
MS. PENZA: So, we'll talk about that in a minute.
Did you spend any time socially with Allison Mack during The Source?
NICOLE: Not really. She was just -- she was more like the teacher. I met, like, a few other people in Albany, but I didn't really hang out with Allison outside of classes.
MS. PENZA: Now, after you finished The Source, did you move down to the city?
MS. PENZA: And can you tell us a little bit about what your life was like when you moved down?
NICOLE: Yeah. So, for the first three weeks, three, three and a half weeks, I slept on a couch while I was trying to find an apartment. And that was -- you know, it's exciting because you're in New York City, but it's also really hard to sleep on a couch for three and a half weeks and I sort of overestimated my ability to do that.
MS. PENZA: Did you end up finding a job?
NICOLE: Yeah. So, then the whole time I was doing that, I was just looking for a job. And, yeah, I ended up finding a restaurant job waiting tables.
MS. PENZA: How was the audition scene in New York?
MS. PENZA: How so?
NICOLE: Well, like, in LA you could go to as many as, like, three different commercial auditions in one day. And sometimes it would be slower, but there's just a lot going on commercially in Los Angeles.
And in New York, it was -- I just would have, like, maybe one audition a week. And I was kind of asking people is this just how it is in New York? And they were like, well, it's -- yeah, it's just not as busy commercially in New York, which was kind of a bummer in that a lot of the commercial jobs in New York are nonunion, which is also a bummer because that is -- you just make a lot less money, so...
MS. PENZA: Now, was there also -- did anything also happen with the agency that you had been involved with in LA?
NICOLE: Yeah. So, my agency in LA, which is a phenomenal commercial agency in LA, they opened their office in New York, and then, like, the main commercial agent decided that she didn't want to do it and moved back to Texas. And I was like, okay. And then they decided that maybe, like, commercially in New York wasn't the best, so they started just doing musical theater.
So, now that company still does commercials and everything in Los Angeles, but they only do musical theater in stage productions in New York, which didn't really help me because I wasn't pursuing musical theater.
MS. PENZA: Now, while you were in New York, did you keep in touch with Allison Mack?
MS. PENZA: And how did that happen?
NICOLE: So, part of what was pitched to me about The Source by Mark -- and I remember because I was -- I told my parents because I was excited about this possibility -- was like, okay, so what Mr. Raniere had been trying to create was this acting program that mixed psychology and acting and that, also, it could be something that you could teach while you were pursuing your career. So, like, basically taking the place of waiting tables. Like, I would be teaching acting and auditioning and doing jobs simultaneously, which sounded really cool to me. Then you get to be, like, not only working on your craft but helping other people and not have to wait tables anymore.
MS. PENZA: So, it was pitched as a way to make money?
NICOLE: Yes, sorry, it was pitched as a way to make money.
Allison had talked to me about that as well. So, we had stayed in contact concerning, like, the ongoing program of The Source and, like, possibly doing that.
MS. PENZA: And, so, did you continue doing work with The Source once you were in the city?
MS. PENZA: In what respect?
MS. PENZA: And were you just taking those classes or at that point were you --
At that point, you were not teaching?
MS. PENZA: Just before I move on, was there also this idea, was there ever a discussion from Mark Hildreth that taking The Source would give you a sense of community in New York?
NICOLE: Yeah. Allison and Mark were really big on that when I first moved, like, You're so lucky because now you have, like, a built-in community when you get to New York. Like, you won't be -- you'll know people. And, so, we're going to introduce you to people in the New York center.
And so that was very, very big on that, like, that I would have a community in New York already.
MS. PENZA: Moving to August 2015, did you attend V-Week that year?
MS. PENZA: Had you ever attended a V-Week before?
MS. PENZA: Did you pay for that?
MS. PENZA: About how much was that?
NICOLE: I can't exactly remember. I think it was somewhere between $1,800 and $2,200, would be my guess.
MS. PENZA: Now, how did you end up attending V-Week 2015?
NICOLE: Allison had said -- Allison and Mark had told me that there was to be Source things going on at V-Week and, so, I could, like -- during V-Week, I could take a Source class with other actors and meet people and meet more of the ESP community. And, also, it was in Upstate New York by a lake, I think it's called lake George, and it reminded me of home.
MS. PENZA: Who did you room with at V-Week 2015?
NICOLE: So, Allison ended up messaging me that her and Rebecca were getting, like, a three-person room and would I like to go in on that with them, which I think would have been cheaper than me paying for my own private room, so I said yeah, sure.
MS. PENZA: And, so, Allison set up the rooms?
MS. PENZA: Where did you actually physically sleep?
MS. PENZA: Did it seem -- at that point, did it seem strange to you that you were sharing a bed with Allison?
NICOLE: I mean, I didn't know her that well, but I don't know, I had to -- you know, there's five people in my family, so someone's got to share something with someone if you're only getting one hotel room. I could sleep on the floor or, like, I wasn't really big on -- I can sleep anywhere, so fine.
MS. PENZA: During V-Week, did you have any conversations with Allison?
NICOLE: Yeah, I mean, a few different ones while we were all in the same room, her, Rebecca, and I.
But one day she brought up that she had -- that she was part of this really cool women's mentorship where, like, a woman mentors another woman. And it was just that it was this really cool thing for, like, women who wanted to be serious about being strong women, and she thought that I might be interested in it. And that's all she was going to tell me because it was kind of a new thing, but -- that's all she was going to tell me.
MS. PENZA: Did she actually use, like, a specific phrase?
NICOLE: Like, I'm just going to, like, plant that seed in your mind, but that's all I'm going to say for now.
MS. PENZA: Did it plant a seed in your mind?
NICOLE: Yeah. I thought cool, like, well -- yeah, being mentored by another woman, being mentored by anyone is I think, in my mind at that time, was a privilege. I mean, that's the whole point of a mentorship, that they help you -- they help you.
MS. PENZA: In particular, given what you were doing or seeking to do for a living at that point in time, did the fact that Allison Mack was proposing this mentorship idea have special significance?
NICOLE: Yeah, I mean, I think I looked up to her because, you know, she had a lot of discipline and she had gotten to a certain level in her career and had a certain amount of success in her career but also was, like, very serious about becoming a great actress. And that was what I cared so much about. Like, I didn't want to just be an actress, I wanted to be great at it.
And, so, yeah, she had kind of taken on the role of mentoring me in The Source already, so I thought, well, that would be really cool.
MS. PENZA: Now, while you were rooming with Allison and Rebecca at V-Week 2015, did you observe anything that seemed unusual to you?
NICOLE: Just there was a lot of, like, drills going on, people running in and out of the room at night. It was really hard to sleep.
MS. PENZA: What do you mean by that?
NICOLE: Well, I don't really even understand what was going on because I was never part of -- there's, like, another course called SOP Complete, and they were having kind of -- I don't know. I don't know if there was readiness or something along those lines, but they were doing some type of drills that people would be running in and out of the room and -- I don't know.
MS. PENZA: In the middle of the night?
MS. PENZA: Did individuals actually have alarms set to wake up?
NICOLE: Yeah.
I always felt like Rebecca was so exhausted with everything she was trying to do that she would set her alarm and then sleep through it. And it would be going on and on for, like, 15 minutes. And you're trying to sleep and you're, like, okay, I don't know this person well enough to be, like, yo, wake up or, like, to actually turn off her alarm. So, I would just kind of be like, okay, just try to go back to sleep, just try to go back to sleep.
But it was very -- yeah.
MS. PENZA: Were you able to observe anything about Allison's diet?
NICOLE: Not really then. It was -- that was more during the first Source.
But she did bring all her own food to V-Week.
MS. PENZA: Did she mention how many calories she was eating a day?
MS. PENZA: Did you find it surprising that she was eating 500-calories a day?
NICOLE: She seemed really intense about, like, what she was doing, so you just kind of, like, backed off of it.
It was she was eating 500 calories a day, she would make her salads during The Source, like, at lunchtime, and she was training for a half-marathon or marathon, I don't remember which. She was just -- yeah, I thought it was a little intense, but she seemed serious about it so I didn't really question it.
MS. PENZA: At that point in time, did you know anything about whether Allison had a sexual relationship with the Defendant?
MS. PENZA: Later on, and we can talk about it more later, but did you come to realize that she did have a sexual relationship with the Defendant?
MS. PENZA: How about Rebecca?
MS. PENZA: Later on you learned that she also had a sexual relationship with the Defendant?
MS. PENZA: Now, did you meet the Defendant at V-Week 2015?
MS. PENZA: What was your impression of the way Keith Raniere was treated at V-Week 2015?
NICOLE: Well, this was the first time that it really kind of struck me as being -- "odd," I guess is the best word. But it just seemed like they very much put him on a pedestal and idolized him.
And I just -- maybe it was because we were at V-Week and it's, like, ten days that are dedicated to his birthday and you would go into these, like -- they weren't seminars, but they kind of had meetings, during V-Week they had meetings where Nancy Salzman would speak, and she would always refer to Keith as the smartest man in the world, which, like, I just kind of -- it just strikes me as weird because how would you know who the smartest man in the world is? And anyone who says that -- it just sounds like bullshit to me.
NICOLE: Because how do you know? You might not know someone who's really smart in the world. It just seems like a very arrogant thing to say.
THE COURT: Next question, please.
MS. PENZA: Did you end up looking up whether he was --
MS. PENZA: But now do you actually -- do you have any memory of actually --
You didn't actually meet the Defendant at V-Week?
MS. PENZA: Did you become close with anyone else at V-Week 2015?
MS. PENZA: And who introduced you to Emiliano?
MS. PENZA: Tell us a little bit, just briefly, about the development of your friendship over V-Week 2015.
NICOLE: Well, Emi really liked to run as well. I think we started, like, just kind of running in the morning and chatting. I don't know, it started out as a conversation, and then we went on a run, and he asked me -- there's, like, a 5K that's done at V-Week. They have a little 5K race, and I -- Emi was like, Why don't you run the 5K?
I was like, I don't race.
He's like, It's the same as if we would do a three-mile run.
So I was like, Okay, I guess.
So, we ran the 5K.
MS. PENZA: How did you do in the 5K?
MS. PENZA: How did other people react to you getting first?
NICOLE: Fine. I just remember, like, a couple of, like, guys that I knew being, like, I can't believe you beat us.
Sorry.
MS. PENZA: So, the men and the women ran at the same time?
NICOLE: Yeah, but, also, there was a triathlon going on at the same time. There was a lot of things going on.
And Emi barely beat me and he was like -- I wish I would have beat him.
MS. PENZA: During that time, did you express any concerns to Emi about what you were seeing at V-Week 2015?
NICOLE: Yeah. I just I kind of told him one day when we were running, I don't know, it seems a little weird to me. Like, I'm not -- I don't really like situations where someone is idolized. It just feels weird.
And he said, Yeah, but, you know, Keith doesn't want that. That's not what he's looking for. Like, people project that on to him. And, you know, sometimes people just want to believe in something more.
Okay, but -- yeah, he was, like, Sometimes people just want to believe in something more and sometimes people project those things on to Keith. And it's not something that he wants, but it's just something that happens.
And he also said that I didn't need to worry about it because -- I really wasn't that involved in the ESP community, but he was, like, It's not like you have to.
I was like, Okay, fair enough.
MS. PENZA: Did that conversation have any impact on you?
NICOLE: Absolutely. I really trusted -- I trusted Emiliano's guidance. I mean, he obviously comes from a respectable family, but he's like super -- he's very smart, he's well-educated, he went to Harvard. He's not an idiot. And we formed a good friendship, so I trusted him.
And I thought, Okay, like, you know, you really look up to this person but don't idolize him as far as I could tell, so okay.
MS. PENZA: All right. So, turning -- moving on from August 2015, did you end up taking additional curriculum for The Source?
MS. PENZA: When was that?
MS. PENZA: So, October 2015.
MS. PENZA: And what was the point of taking that course in October?
NICOLE: So, if I took the course again and also took the Teachers in Training part of the course, then it would be, like, partway to becoming certified to teach.
MS. PENZA: And that's -- before, when we talked about this pitch of you can teach The Source and continue doing your auditions, this is something you would need to do in order to have that?
MS. PENZA: So, you would need to take this program in order to actually make money teaching The Source?
MS. PENZA: And, so, who -- did anyone in particular encourage you to take it?
MS. PENZA: And what did she say?
NICOLE: Well, again, she was -- what felt like, to me, was she was mentoring me a bit in becoming a teacher and this was going to be like a really great group of people that were coming up for the October training, and, so, it would be a good time for me to retake it. And they had someone that wasn't her that was teaching the Teachers in Training part.
MS. PENZA: And how much was it going to cost?
NICOLE: So, to redo the course was supposed to be half-price, and then also the Teachers in Training, the, like, extra Teachers in Training part was another thousand dollars. So, at first I thought that the -- because my course had been $6,000 at first, I thought it was going to be $3,000, then maybe plus the extra thousand. But they had raised the prices, so now it ended up that it was going to be $6,000.
(Continued on the following page.)
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. PENZA: (Continuing)
MS. PENZA: So had they raised the price to $10,000?
MS. PENZA: And, so, this would have been half --
MS. PENZA: How did you pay for that?
NICOLE: I paid for 2,000 and Allison lent me -- Allison said she would lend me the rest, which was $4,000.
MS. PENZA: Did you eventually pay her back for that?
MS. PENZA: Was this a lot of money for you at the time?
MS. PENZA: Were you told -- did Allison tell you how much you'd make teaching The Source if you became certified?
NICOLE: Yeah. So, I believe that it was you would make 50 percent of every student that was in the course, which, like, if it's $10,000 per student, which, you know, I thought was very expensive, like way too expensive, if that's the case, it is $5,000 per student. So you could make a decent amount of money if you had like good groups of people.
MS. PENZA: Did you -- did you have concerns about the financial viability of The Source?
NICOLE: Yeah. Well, I remember talking about some of the concerns with my mom and dad because, you know, I think my dad asked me well, are you responsible for finding all these students, like how exactly does this all work? And, also, for me personally, $10,000 -- well, $10,000 is a lot of money. And when you're trying to pitch to actors that don't have a lot of money, that's -- you know, not that actors don't have a lot of money. Actors are kind of in two different places: They're either doing really well and they have money or they're struggle and they're barely making it work and working from job to job. So $10,000 can be a lot of money for the type of person that, like, I'm around that I would be pitching it to.
MS. PENZA: Did you discuss those specific concerns about Allison?
MS. PENZA: And what did she say?
NICOLE: Well, there was a few different answers that I got at different times. But one would be like people make things work when they want to make it work or how valuable has it been to you, is it worth that much money?
They were working on kind of setting up an ongoing version. So instead of $10,000 for -- I think it was like only three weeks at that point, then it would be like $400 a month, which is not too different from a normal acting class.
MS. PENZA: Did Allison also specifically talk to you about teaching you how to enroll other people?
NICOLE: Yeah, they say they help you. They have classes or they help you to like learn how to enroll people so that you would have students to teach.
MS. PENZA: So how long was the October 2015 class?
MS. PENZA: And who taught that course?
NICOLE: Allison taught it again. And I think that Mark helped, was like an assistant teacher. It was either that one or the one after. I don't remember.
MS. PENZA: And did you end up staying in the same place you had stayed for the first time you took the course?
NICOLE: I did. It was the cheapest option. But I stayed under the -- in like the basement house area, but in a different room.
MS. PENZA: During that course, did you end up having a conversation with Allison Mack about life?
NICOLE: Yeah. One day we -- she asked me if I wanted to go on a walk and we went walking. It was like October. So it was fall. So we were like walking through the leaves and there was like one road around this area. So we were walking down the road and she was kind of just asking me like what I wanted in my life and how much I cared about growth and questions like at that.
MS. PENZA: Okay. And did she ask you anything about your desire to have a family?
NICOLE: Yeah. She asked me if I wanted to have a family some day and I said absolutely. She asked me about how much my family meant to me, which is obviously a lot. My family means a lot to me. And then she asked me if I was willing to like -- I don't remember how she phrased it exactly, but willing to let go of my attachment to my family or push hard enough to let go of my attachment to having a family.
MS. PENZA: And what did you say?
MS. PENZA: So as of October 2015, how were you doing in New York?
NICOLE: I mean, okay. Not great. Like I kept telling myself that things take time. You know, I lived in Los Angeles a long time. Sometimes it takes time to build a life in a new city. But it was -- I was working really long hours at the restaurant. I was working and like -- and just barely being able to pay my bills and my commercial agents were obviously not -- everything was falling apart there. So, you know, I was like -- I liked being in New York, but sometimes I would be just like what did I do.
MS. PENZA: Did things start to worsen for you?
NICOLE: Yeah. In January and February, it was really hard. Because it -- I mean, it was my first winter in New York, so I think there were just like a lot of things going on. Sorry. So there were -- there was a lot going on. I would -- winter can be tough. People don't go out to eat at restaurants as much, so you're not making as much as money. And I was just feeling really lonely and unsure of how to move forward with my career in New York and just kind of, like, thinking about everything that I left behind in L.A. and being like why? Why did you do this? What were you thinking?
MS. PENZA: So drawing your attention to February 2016, can you describe what your mental state was like at that time?
NICOLE: Yeah, I -- I was really depressed. I -- up until that point I don't think I had -- I didn't really know what to do. I was so depressed. I was really struggling.
MS. PENZA: At some point around then, did you consider yourself suicidal?
MS. PENZA: Did you discuss that with anybody?
MS. PENZA: Did you discuss that pain with anyone?
NICOLE: Yeah, I sent Allison an e-mail. I mean, yeah, I sent Allison an e-mail saying that I was -- I think I said I was suicidal, but I was calm because I didn't think that that was really what I wanted to do. I just wanted to know that I had a way out. I mean, yeah. It's not really something I wanted to do. It's just I was feeling like really low.
MS. PENZA: Your Honor, I think if we want to take an afternoon break, I think this is a good time.
THE COURT: We will take a break now. All rise for the jury.
(Jury enters the courtroom.)
THE COURT: The witness may stand down.
(Witness steps down.)
THE COURT: Anything before we take the break?
MS. PENZA: No, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. We will take a 10-minute break.
(Recess taken.)
THE COURT: Bring in the witness, please.
MR. LESKO: We have a very minor issue, but I don't think -- it's not really an issue. We just wanted some guidance.
THE COURT: Can we do it in the open?
MR. LESKO: In the open.
THE COURT: Let's wait for everyone to be here. Okay. All right. Yes. You may be seated in the back.
We have an issue.
MR. LESKO: Your Honor, we are trying to predict tomorrow's schedule. I think it is highly likely that Nicole will remain on the stand throughout the day. We have a witness who will be the next witness who will have to come in from out of town tonight to be ready in case we have a few minutes at the end of tomorrow. We would prefer not to have that witness travel to the city for that purpose because it would be unlikely he would be called. I have raised this with the defense. I just wanted to raise it with the Court because if Nicole goes quickly, we may have a few minutes of extra time at the end of the day and I wanted to get some guidance from the Court as to how you wanted to handle that.
MR. AGNIFILO: So what I believe to be the case is the Government believes they will have Nicole on direct through lunch tomorrow.
THE COURT: Right.
MR. AGNIFILO: If that ends up being the case, I would think I would come close to finishing the day on cross. Now, I could come up 20 minutes short or a half hour short.
THE COURT: That's fine. We are not going to worry about that. Let me understand this, how long is your next witness?
MR. LESKO: Less than an hour.
THE COURT: I don't want to take a chance. Why don't we plan on that witness being here on Monday morning if that's the case. If we adjourn 20 minutes early or half an hour early, we can't stay past 5:00 because the jury doesn't want to stay past 5:00, so I think that resolves the issue really. Thank you for letting me know.
MR. LESKO: Thank you.
MR. AGNIFILO: Thank you, Judge.
THE COURT: Let's put on the witness, please.
(Witness takes the stand.)
(Jury enters the courtroom.)
THE COURT: All right. Please be seated, everyone. I think I covered this at the beginning of the trial, but just let me make mention of it, if anyone on the jury or counsel's table or the witness needs to take a bathroom break while we are not taking a break, just raise your hand, the person can leave and come back and we will wait. We don't want anyone to be uncomfortable. We want you to be concentrating on the case. Just let us know. Mr. Reccoppa, my clerk, Mr. Haddad, and I will try to keep an eye on things. Also, if anyone notices that, just let me know.
All right. You may continue your examination of the witness. The witness is reminded that she is still under oath.
MS. PENZA: Thank you, Your Honor.
May I have the ELMO just for the witness?
THE COURT: Sure. One moment, please.
Okay.
MS. PENZA: Nicole, I'm showing you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 651. Are you familiar with this document?
MS. PENZA: And is this an e-mail that you sent to Allison Mack on February 10, 2016 at 1:19 a.m.?
MS. PENZA: Your Honor, the Government offers Government Exhibit 651 into evidence.
MR. AGNIFILO: We have no objection.
THE COURT: Government Exhibit 651 is received in evidence. Published to the jury.
MS. PENZA: Thank you, Your Honor.
(Government's Exhibit 651 received in evidence.)
(Exhibit published.)
MS. PENZA: Nicole, can you -- I guess let's start at the top. So the subject line of this e-mail is dancing in the dark; is that right?
MS. PENZA: How do you come up with the titles for your e-mails?
NICOLE: I just kind of like to entertain myself with how I title my e-mails. So, usually, like, they have some kind of reference to what's going on. But I also just like to be creative. So, my guess in here would be that I was feeling pretty dark but, like, trying to somehow make light of it.
MS. PENZA: Is it fair to say that if we look at other ones of your e-mails we will see like --
MS. PENZA: -- has like different turns of phrase in the subject line?
MS. PENZA: And it is from you and your e-mail address is redacted; is that right?
MS. PENZA: And it is to Allison Mack?
MS. PENZA: And is that Allison Mack's e-mail address?
MS. PENZA: Scout82@gmail.com?
MS. PENZA: Now, looking at this document, there appears to be two sections. It says Source journal and personal journal. Can you explain what that is?
NICOLE: At some point Allison asked me to start journaling to her about kind of what was going on, kind of for mentoring with The Source, was what I thought it was for, and then she asked me to start writing -- so once I started teaching Source classes, she wanted me to include what went on in class that day, if like -- yeah, what happened in class that day, if I learned anything or noted anything, or what we worked on in class. So, the top one, it looks like it is from the day before. I usually taught classes on Tuesdays.
MS. PENZA: Okay. So the top part is about The Source, the acting class that you're teaching?
MS. PENZA: How do you end up writing the personal journal part two to Allison Mack? How did that end up happening?
NICOLE: I don't remember how it first started, but -- she asked me if I wanted to start journaling to her to work on these exercises. Like, she would ask -- for a while I journaled like what are you feeling? Is it real or is it not real? Let me think about how to explain it. She would ask me questions of being like okay, if I got scared about something, to kind of look at what my body was feeling and whether I really needed to be scared or not, or if -- stuff like that. That's kind of how the personal journal started and then they -- yeah.
MS. PENZA: So can I ask you to read from the personal journal portion?
NICOLE: Yes. Well, tonight was brutal. I haven't felt this low in a very long time. I haven't felt suicidal like this in a long time. It hurt and I was scared. But I was also oddly calm about it. Be calm about -- oh, I guess I should have said being. Be calm about suicide scared me in a way as well. But I guess knowing that it was an option felt nice. Not making the option bad, but just genuinely having it as a real option.
(Continued on next page.)
EXAMINATION CONTINUES BY MS. PENZA:
MS. PENZA: I'll read it. I'll read the rest.
I called my brother and I cried on the sidewalk in the streets of New York City for a long time. Matthew said I was having an ego-collapse. And I think he might be right. I have no identity to hold onto at the moment. I don't know who I am or what I want. I no longer have what defined me in LA and I no longer just moved. I even convinced myself that I screwed everything up -- screwed up everything because I've changed my name a few times.
I don't even have a name to define me. Am I Nicole? Who am I? Who do I want to be? Have I fucked it all up already? It's a long dark and exhausting rabbit hole to go down. I'm just tired and I'm sick of feeling this way. I have been feeling better the last few days coming out of my haze, and then tonight at work I sunk even lower than I've been before, than I can remember being in a very long time. I'm tired.
Was that an accurate reflection of how you felt then?
MS. PENZA: And you sent that to Allison Mack on February 10th, 2016?
MS. PENZA: After you -- after you sent that journal article, eventually did Allison Mack respond to you?
MS. PENZA: Did she respond to you on February 11th, 2016?
MS. PENZA: How did she respond?
NICOLE: She said that she was -- that she was sorry she hadn't been more, like, attentive, I think, and that she wanted to make time for me. And she was going to come down to New York City.
MS. PENZA: And did she come down to New York City?
NICOLE: Yeah, I mean -- I think she was already coming down for an audition, but she was just gonna make time to, like, check in.
MS. PENZA: Was that basically on February 12th?
MS. PENZA: And so what happened when she -- where did you meet when she came down?
MS. PENZA: At this point in time, where were you living?
MS. PENZA: So what happened when you met at the Ace Hotel?
NICOLE: She told me about this -- she brought up the Women's Organization -- the mentorship again, the Women's Organization, and she said it was -- she had this -- sorry. She said that she had something that she thought would fix how I was feeling; that that mentorship that she had mentioned to me before was this really cool thing and that it would make everything better. That it was -- it was gonna make me feel better. It would be -- it would be exactly what would help me get out of where I was mentally right then.
MS. PENZA: How did it -- how did it make you feel when she said that to you?
MS. PENZA: So what else did she tell you?
NICOLE: She said that if I wanted to get more information on this mentorship, that I had to provide collateral.
MS. PENZA: Did she -- we'll talk about collateral in a second.
Did she mention anything about this -- during that conversation, did she ever mention anything about the structure of the mentorship?
NICOLE: Yeah, so she said it was, like, a woman would be above you that would mentor you and then eventually you would have a, like, mentee, and you would mentor someone underneath you as well. So, yeah.
MS. PENZA: Was that appealing to you?
NICOLE: Yeah, because -- yeah. Again, I -- I always thought it would be cool to have a mentor, especially, you know, in acting. And also, I really enjoy working with people and, you know, if someone helps me get somewhere, I absolutely would want to repay that and help somebody else. I mean that's -- yeah.
MS. PENZA: Did she say anything about whether this organization had anything to do with NXIVM?
MS. PENZA: Was she clear about it being a group of women?
MS. PENZA: Now, you said she mentioned collateral.
What did she say about collateral during that meeting?
NICOLE: She said that to find out more information, there was like a -- a secrecy quality to -- to the women's group. And so to find out more information, I needed to provide collateral.
MS. PENZA: Had you heard the term "collateral" before?
NICOLE: No -- I mean, maybe I've heard it in passing, but I did not understand. Like, I didn't know what she meant.
MS. PENZA: Did she explain it -- did she -- did she give you an explanation?
MS. PENZA: What did she say?
NICOLE: So I think I asked what the collateral was for, and she said it was for, like, saying that you wouldn't speak about what you heard. So then the collateral was supposed to -- to, like, stand for your word.
So, basically, like you would give someone, like, the deed to your house or your car and if you broke your word they would get your house or your car was what I understood that to be.
MS. PENZA: At that point in time, did you have a house or a car?
MS. PENZA: Did you discuss that with Allison?
MS. PENZA: And so did she say you could give something else?
NICOLE: Yes. She said that I could -- she said that I could make a, like, video, like sort of like a sexual video, or write letters that -- that would hurt my family.
MS. PENZA: How did you react when she suggested this?
NICOLE: I -- I don't think I -- I didn't quite know how to react, at first, because it sounds -- it sounded intense. But she was just like, this is -- it's such a cool program and it's such a cool thing and I really think that it is exactly what you need right now. And so, I think I said -- I think I said I would think about it -- or think about the collateral.
MS. PENZA: Now this conversation you're having with Allison, this is two days after the e-mail that we just looked at?
MS. PENZA: Did you end up moving forward with providing collateral?
MS. PENZA: Looking back, why do you think you were willing to do that?
NICOLE: I think because I wanted to -- I wanted something to be hopeful for and I thought that maybe what she was talking about would -- would be what I -- what would help.
Looking back, it's -- I don't think I was thinking rationally because -- yeah, I don't think I was thinking very rationally.
MS. PENZA: At that point, did you feel that you could trust your own decision-making process?
NICOLE: No. I think I said that in an e-mail that I just, like, didn't know. I was so up and down that I was, like -- yeah, I was not thinking very rationally.
MS. PENZA: At that point in time, did you feel that you could trust Allison?
NICOLE: Yeah. She had been -- she had been mentoring me in The Source for a while now, like -- in a way. It wasn't like a -- like we didn't call it a mentorship, but like she had kind of been taking me under her wing and I -- I trusted her.
MS. PENZA: So over the next few days did you prepare your collateral?
MS. PENZA: Throughout the process, were you in communication with Allison about that?
MS. PENZA: You were in Brooklyn at the time?
MS. PENZA: And describe the back and forth about preparing your collateral?
NICOLE: Well, I didn't know what -- so the letters were supposed to be letters that hurt your family, and you were supposed to write them, but I couldn't write anything. Like, my family is -- is amazing. Like, I love my family. So I was having trouble writing something that would -- would hurt them. Like, even thinking of things. Like what could I -- no one's ever broken the law. No one's ever done anything that, like, I can put in there that's -- that would be like she explained collateral to be, so I didn't really know what to do.
MS. PENZA: And did you express that to Allison?
MS. PENZA: And did Allison tell you what she had written?
NICOLE: Yeah. She said you could lie and she said that she had written that, like, her father had sexually abused her.
MS. PENZA: And so was that -- did you end up writing a letter that was similar to that?
(Pause.)
MS. PENZA: Are you okay?
MS. PENZA: And -- are you okay?
MS. PENZA: Did you write -- did you write letters about other family members as well?
MS. PENZA: Did Allison also talk to you about doing something that would ruin your career?
NICOLE: Yeah, she said to write a letter about one of my ex's, who's like prominent in the -- in the industry and -- I mean, also the sex tape would do that as well, so...
MS. PENZA: But as to the -- as to your ex who's prominent in the industry, was that specifically Allison's suggestion?
(Continued on the following page.)
BY MS. PENZA (Continuing):
MS. PENZA: Did you communicate to Allison that this was a difficult process for you?
MS. PENZA: And what would she say?
NICOLE: That it was an exercise in trust and that -- well, first she said no one is ever going to see any of this.
What I said was, Why would I do this? Like, why would I hand over something that could hurt my family even -- like, even if I never broke my word?
Because I wasn't -- I know how strong my word is. I wasn't going to break my word, but, like, what if someone found these letters someday and I couldn't explain that, like, they're not true? What if, like, I died and someone found the letters and I couldn't explain that it wasn't true?
Like, I was sort of -- I was just -- that's what I was thinking about.
And she said, No one is ever going to see these letters. They're going to be locked in a box and that box is going to be, like, underground and no one is ever going to see them. Like, this is an exercise in trust. Don't you want to be the type of person that trusts someone?
MS. PENZA: In terms of the collateral, what was more difficult for you, the sex tape or the --
I'm sorry, I want to just be clear, the tape, that was only you in the video, right?
MS. PENZA: But it was sexually explicit?
MS. PENZA: -- that or the letters?
MS. PENZA: And have you reviewed some communications back and forth between you and Allison about the collateral process?
MS. PENZA: And in some of those communications, do you express kind of in comparison that the sex tape portion was fun?
NICOLE: Yeah, I think I just -- again, I'm not sure I was thinking very clearly, but I think I just said that, like, making the video was kind of, like, freeing, again, under the circumstances that I thought no one was ever going to see it, ever. So, that was, like, easier for me.
And I think I just said that I had to sort of, like, separate from my body to write the letters because that was so hard for me.
MS. PENZA: Were there specific instructions about the form of the letters, like how they were supposed to be?
NICOLE: Yeah, they had to be signed and put in an envelope and addressed to wherever they would be sent to if I -- you know, where they would be sent to to, like, hurt that person if I broke my word.
MS. PENZA: This would be the way the release of the letter would have some power?
MS. PENZA: Who were they addressed to?
Where was the letter about your father addressed to?
MS. PENZA: How about your mom?
MS. PENZA: And then the letters about your ex, where were those?
MS. PENZA: Did you eventually provide your collateral to Allison?
MS. PENZA: How did you actually provide it?
MS. PENZA: And where did you give it to her?
MS. PENZA: And, so, what happened after you gave it to her?
MS. PENZA: What's Angelica's?
NICOLE: It's a -- it was, it doesn't exist, actually, anymore, but it was a restaurant in the East Village in New York City.
MS. PENZA: You went to Angelica's and what happened?
MS. PENZA: And did she call it a women's empowerment group?
MS. PENZA: Did she give the group a name?
MS. PENZA: And did you know it as The Vow for a long time?
MS. PENZA: Eventually, did you come to learn that it was also called DOS?
MS. PENZA: If I use "The Vow" or "DOS," we're talking about the same thing?
MS. PENZA: So, what else did she tell you about this women's empowerment group?
NICOLE: Well, some of the same stuff. That you had, like, a mentor above you and then that you had -- that you would eventually mentor another woman as well, but that it was, like, a very -- that it was an intense, growing kind of empowerment group, where women were, like, pushing each other to be, like, stronger, like, physically, mentally, intellectually, so that they could live the kind of life that they wanted to; either like have the career that they wanted or build the business that they wanted, but that it would be a group of women that was, like, making you stronger so that you could live the kind of life that you wanted to.
MS. PENZA: And did she specifically say those things, like make the career that you wanted or the business that you wanted?
MS. PENZA: At that point, did she tell you how long the commitment would be?
NICOLE: Yeah. So, she said, like, that The Vow that you would make to this women's organization would be a lifetime commitment.
MS. PENZA: Did she mention anything about -- did she mention any other details?
NICOLE: She said that, like, all of the women that were involved in this, and, like, there were some really amazing women involved in this, like, everyone did or would have a matching necklace and, like, a small, like, brand, like a tattoo.
MS. PENZA: Did she actually use that phrase, "a small brand like a tattoo"?
MS. PENZA: What was your impression at that time about the brand?
NICOLE: That it would be like a small little, like, tattoo. Like my mom and my sister have little matching tattoos. It's kind of just what I pictured.
MS. PENZA: So, what did you think about what Allison was telling you?
NICOLE: The lifetime commitment was a little bit scary to me, but everything else was, like, sounded good, like, interesting.
I don't know, as an actor, you always want to be physically, mentally, and intellectually stronger. You want to play those kind of characters, you want to be that kind of woman. You want to be the kind of woman that, like, can build a career that she wants or can play those kind of women on screen.
So, it sounded -- compared to where I was at mentally, yeah, it sounded pretty good.
MS. PENZA: Did she give you a time frame in which to join?
MS. PENZA: And, so, did you join?
MS. PENZA: How did you communicate that to Allison?
NICOLE: Well, again, the biggest thing that freaked me out was the lifetime commitment because, like, I don't know, even in marriage, it's like if you make that commitment, like, you can -- I mean, just -- I take that very seriously and it kind of scared me because I had -- I don't know, I just -- anyway...
So, I wanted to call her and tell her that because she was back up in Albany and I was in Brooklyn. I wanted to call her and tell her that I accepted. And she didn't pick up the phone, but she texted me back and said, you know, Do you have an answer?
And I was kind of like, Well, yeah, but I figured, like, a call was a better way to communicate a lifetime commitment than a text.
But, yeah, so, it was over text message.
MS. PENZA: Now, looking back, do you have a view as to why you joined?
NICOLE: Yeah. I think it's a couple different reasons.
I mean, I think at the time, like, I was really looking for something to be hopeful for and something to kind of, like, ground me and to, like, working towards rebuilding my career, because I was just obviously, like, at such a low point.
And I also -- you know, I think it -- it's easy as an actress to just -- it's kind of like -- I wanted to be like Wonder Woman, I wanted to play that role, and it's kind of what it sounded to me like. And I wanted to be mentored by another actress that was trying to become a great actress as well. I thought that that would help me build that for my life. And to have, like, a group of women that helped you accomplish that, it sounded good.
But I also think I was just at a place in my life where, yeah, that sounded really good.
MS. PENZA: Your Honor, may I have the Elmo just for the witness, please?
THE COURT: Go ahead.
MS. PENZA: Nicole, I'm showing you what's marked for identification as Government Exhibit 657.
Do you see that?
MS. PENZA: And is this a continuation of the e-mail chain we had looked at before, that was "dancing in the dark"?
MS. PENZA: And this is a continuation of the chain and it ends on February 13, 2016 at 8:52 a.m.?
MS. PENZA: Your Honor, the Government offers Government Exhibit 657 into evidence.
MR. AGNIFILO: No objection.
THE COURT: Government Exhibit 657 is received in evidence and you may publish to the jury.
MS. PENZA: Thank you.
(Government Exhibit 657 so marked.)
(Exhibit published to the jury.)
MS. PENZA: Nicole, I'm going to start at the end of this document.
So, looking at the second to last page, is this the e-mail that we read before?
MS. PENZA: So, you had sent that e-mail to Allison on February 10?
MS. PENZA: And then I'm just going to show you the second page.
On February 11, had you sent another journal article -- I'm sorry, do you see where it says -- can you see -- no, you can't.
Can you see where it says February 11?
MS. PENZA: And, so, continuing on to the next page, was that another e-mail that you had sent to Allison?
MS. PENZA: And this was another one where you discussed your depression?
MS. PENZA: And then February 11, Allison Mack writes back to you: I will be in New York City tomorrow. What's your time frame? We need to spend some time together. I'm sorry I have not been there for you. Let me know. I will prioritize you.
MS. PENZA: And then you write back, and if we look up at the top the arrangements are made to meet at the Ace Hotel; is that right?
MS. PENZA: And then this is, if you look here, February 12, 2016. Again, you have a Source portion of it.
But then on February 11, there's -- you have an e-mail: Today was much better. Woke up calmer and more settled. Went for a run, went to class, and then went to meet Allison.
MS. PENZA: And: The meeting with Allison was wonderful.
MS. PENZA: Cozy and comfortable and has got my brain thinking.
MS. PENZA: So, that was the meeting that was in response to the e-mails you had sent about your depression?
MS. PENZA: And is this referencing the first conversation you had with her about the -- the first meeting that you had about the women's mentorship group, the one where she -- I'm sorry, I know you had a few conversations.
The one where she mentioned the collateral to you?
MS. PENZA: And then February 13, you send another e-mail saying that you feel a bit lost and unfocused again.
And then February 13, Allison Mack writes back: I'm so excited to share with you what I am doing. I think this is exactly what you need. Trust me, you will be okay. Is your collateral finished?
MS. PENZA: And did you complete the collateral within a couple days of that?
MS. PENZA: So, based on the conversations you had had -- at the point at which you joined DOS, based on what Allison had told you, what was your understanding of what this group was going to be?
NICOLE: A women's mentorship where Allison would mentor me in life and that was going to, like, push me into my fears so that I could build the kind of career that I wanted and become the kind of woman that I wanted to be; that it was a secret, I wasn't supposed to talk about it, but that it was -- like, it was a women's organization that also -- that the women were pushing through their fears to be strong and build the life they wanted to build so that they could help people.
MS. PENZA: During any of the conversations you had with Allison Mack about DOS before you joined, did she tell you that the Defendant was involved in the group?
MS. PENZA: How would knowing that information have affected your decision about whether to join?
NICOLE: Well, it's a women's empowerment group. So, if a man had been running the whole thing, I wouldn't -- it doesn't even make sense. I would not have been interested.
MS. PENZA: You were looking for women's mentorship?
MS. PENZA: We'll talk about some of these things going forward, but at that point in time and now looking back, looking back are there other things you later learned that would have affected your decision to join DOS?
MR. AGNIFILO: I'm going to object to the form of the question.
THE COURT: Overruled.
You may answer.
NICOLE: Yeah, I guess the first one would be that apparently I was giving up my free will and that I couldn't make my own decisions, but that eventually there would have to be more collateral added on and that I would have no say in whether or not I gave it, like, it would be demanded.
I mean, there were so many things that were added on later once you were, like, sealed into this situation.
MS. PENZA: At that point in time when you joined, when you joined DOS, did you believe that there would be any sexual component to it?
MS. PENZA: Would knowing that have affected your decision to join?
NICOLE: Yeah. I don't know how that has anything to do with mentorship. So, yes, it absolutely would have. I wouldn't have been interested because I wasn't -- that's not what I was looking for.
MS. PENZA: Now, while you were in DOS, how would you communicate with Allison?
NICOLE: So, then I was told that, like, the way the mentorship was communicated, it was a master-slave relationship, and, so, I was told to say, Good morning, Master, and, Good night, Master, every night to Allison.
MS. PENZA: How did you feel about that?
NICOLE: Not great. I mean, it's like I tried to, like, wrap my head around it in the sense of thinking of, like, I don't know, like, great artists, like Michelangelo, they had, like, masters that taught them. So, I tried to think about it in my head.
But it feels really weird and I don't like answering to people in particular, in general. So, having to do that every morning and every night was, like, not my favorite.
(Continued on the following page.)
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. PENZA: (Continuing)
MS. PENZA: Now, in terms of forms of communication, what types of forms of communication would you have with Allison?
MS. PENZA: Later on, did you end up using something called Telegram?
MS. PENZA: And was it explained to you the importance of using Telegram at some point?
MS. PENZA: Who explained it to you?
NICOLE: Allison explained that like in Telegram I guess you could lock the -- like chains, so no one could read -- basically it was like a more secretive way of communicating. So you could lock the back and forth, so no one else could read it.
MS. PENZA: Eventually, did you also use something called Sideline?
MS. PENZA: What is Sideline?
NICOLE: It's this -- so, basically, you get another phone number, but it still goes to your phone, but you have like -- so I would give -- it's another phone number that still comes back to your phone, but it is a completely different phone number from your phone number. It's a side line.
MS. PENZA: And did Allison have a Sideline as well?
MS. PENZA: Now, what were your initial experiences with DOS like?
NICOLE: Immediate, like right away, Allison was very loving and like she came down to New York City and like set it up for us to have lunch and go to a museum and she was very communicative and checking in on me and seeing how I was feeling. Like she was nice.
MS. PENZA: Did she also do anything to actually -- at that point, did she do anything that made you feel like there was a career ventureship [sic] happening?
NICOLE: Yes. So she set up my first off-Broadway audition for a really great play and also set me up with a meeting with her agency, which was a really good agency for commercials, theater, and film and TV.
MS. PENZA: At some point, did Allison give you an assignment, your first assignment?
MS. PENZA: What was the first assignment?
NICOLE: We were talking and the first assignment was for me -- so Mark, my ex that had introduced me to ESP, had also moved to New York after I moved to New York and, so, we had sort of still been off-and-on dating. That wasn't really my priority when I was in New York, but we had been off-and-on dating. And she -- my first assignment was to not sleep with him any more.
MS. PENZA: And did she explain why she was giving you that assignment?
MS. PENZA: Did she actually tie it to your career?
NICOLE: Yeah, that it was like my back and forth with Mark was distracting from my career, from me focusing on my career, and that it just wasn't a healthy situation.
MS. PENZA: At the time, how did you feel about that first assignment?
NICOLE: Fine, because I kind of like agreed with her. I was like, yeah, you're right, it's not really -- I shouldn't keep doing this. So, I thought, oh, wow, she's like really looking out for me.
MS. PENZA: I think you already said this, but at that point in time, were you prioritizing at all having an intimate relationship?
NICOLE: No. I really wanted to figure out my career and I felt like once I figured out -- like was more on my feet financially, and just like had more of a groove in my career, then I would think about dating. But, right now, I wanted just to -- that's why I had moved to New York, so I really just wanted to focus. Not that I -- you know, if I met someone, great, wonderful, but I wasn't going out on dates all the time or anything like that.
MS. PENZA: At some point did Allison give you further direction about your sex life?
MS. PENZA: And how did you interpret that assignment?
MS. PENZA: Did something happen after that that gave you concern?
NICOLE: Yes. So -- and I didn't think that that was that weird either, at first, because I thought, okay, I mean, I don't particularly want do this, but I've never done this, so okay. Like, I'll try it.
MS. PENZA: Try being celibate?
NICOLE: Yes. Try being celibate, yeah, for three months.
I also started a new job at that time and, one of the nights at my new job, I met a really cute boy and I -- and I wrote about it in my journal and Allison kind of like flipped out and that concerned me.
MS. PENZA: So when you say you wrote about it in your journal, is this another one of these e-mails journals?
NICOLE: Yes, another part of the like back and forth was, yeah, now I had to journal every night to Allison. And, so, I wrote in my journal that I met a really cute boy and I had given him my phone number.
MS. PENZA: And I think you said she flipped out?
MS. PENZA: What did that look like?
NICOLE: Well, she answers me back, well, did you give it to him? And I was like, oh, shoot, what did I do wrong?
And so I wrote, yeah, yeah, but like don't worry, I'm still going to be celibate. I can go on a date and like get to know him, and like I'm not saying I'm about to sleep with him. Jesus, I just met him.
So I kind of just explained, I was like, yeah, like I did, but like these are the reasons why. I'm not -- and...
MS. PENZA: Did you actually explain to her that you thought this would be a good way to test this?
NICOLE: Yeah, I did. I thought it would be a good way to like challenge that, where you like have to get to know someone for a full three months before like anything intimate happens, you know. And so I thought what a cool way to use this first challenge.
MS. PENZA: And so, how did Allison respond?
NICOLE: She said that I, like, violated my word, that I -- what did she say? She like wrote a whole long thing about how like I -- what I did was not good, and I was not keeping like my -- my side of the bargain and I needed to fix it.
I was just, like, what?
MS. PENZA: So when -- at this point in time, when Allison has this reaction to you giving your number to this boy, how do you feel?
NICOLE: Super unnerved, because it seems like such an extreme reaction and I was like, man, I don't know what I just signed up for, but like I don't think that this is for me because this is just -- it was just the intensity of her response like really unnerved me.
MS. PENZA: At that point in time, were you also -- were you doing a little bit better in New York?
NICOLE: Yeah, I had gotten myself a new job. So, basically, I had just finally admitted that I wasn't making enough money at where I was working. I had tried to avoid going into nightlife, because working in nightlife in New York City can be a bit tough, but that seemed like a really good solution for the moment to being able to pay all my bills. So I reached out to a friend and I got a job working at a really nice nightclub that had like a rooftop club. It was a whole new experience and world, and I was up until -- so, basically, I worked from 9:30 until 5:00 a.m. But I was starting to be a little -- I could pay all my bills myself, at this new job, so I wasn't as stressed about money, and I started to meet other girls in New York City that I worked with, so I was starting to meet people. So I think I was feeling a lot more like, okay, I can do this, I can figure this out.
MS. PENZA: And so approximately when is this?
NICOLE: I started that job maybe the last week of February, first week of March. So maybe this would be the middle of March, end of March.
MS. PENZA: Okay. Now, did getting this new job also have a positive impact on your ability to go to auditions?
NICOLE: Yes, so as long as I wasn't too exhausted. I was working nights, so I could actually audition during the day, so it really felt like a pretty good situation. It was hard to stay up all night, but it felt like a good situation, yeah.
MS. PENZA: So at this point in time, after Allison has this reaction about you giving out your phone number, do you actually make a decision about DOS?
NICOLE: Yeah. I was scared, but I -- because I didn't really fully understand like what the -- what she was going to say or how she was going to react, but I had decided that like this just wasn't for me. My mom had just come into town and -- and, you know, I had really decided that it wasn't -- this wasn't the right thing for me.
MS. PENZA: And did you decide you were going to tell Allison that?
MS. PENZA: Your Honor, may I have the ELMO just for the witness, please?
THE COURT: One moment. Go ahead.
MS. PENZA: Nicole -- oh.
MS. PENZA: Excuse me. One moment, Your Honor.
MS. PENZA: Nicole, I'm showing you what's marked for identification purposes as Government Exhibit 1356.
MS. PENZA: Are you familiar with this document?
MS. PENZA: And is this an e-mail from you to Allison Mack on March 28, 2016 at 2:41 a.m.?
MS. PENZA: And is this basically a schedule of your day on that day?
MS. PENZA: Was that something that you would typically have to do is tell Allison your schedule?
NICOLE: Yeah, at some point that got introduced when -- yeah, I had to tell her like what I was doing, what my whole next day plan was.
MS. PENZA: And, so --
MS. PENZA: Your Honor, the Government moves Government Exhibit 1356 into evidence.
MR. AGNIFILO: We have no objection.
THE COURT: Government Exhibit 1356 is received in evidence. Publish to the jury.
(Exhibit published.)
(Government's Exhibit 1356 received in evidence.)
(Continued on next page.)
EXAMINATION CONTINUES BY MS. PENZA:
MS. PENZA: Don't mind my redactions.
So this is -- you said this would be a schedule that you would send to Allison?
MS. PENZA: And is this just an example of one of many, many daily schedules that you would send to Allison?
MS. PENZA: Now, this one in particular, March 28, 2016, says: Get house ready for mom's arrival, 1:30 to 2:30?
MS. PENZA: And is that actually the visit from your mom that you were --
MS. PENZA: Yes.
MS. PENZA: Okay. Now, did Allison come down and meet your mom?
MS. PENZA: What was that like?
NICOLE: There is a lot -- I had a lot of feelings going on because she had bought tickets to -- for my mom and I -- her, my mom and I, to go see Blackbird on Broadway.
MS. PENZA: Allison, what is Blackbird about?
NICOLE: It's about a next-door neighbor who ends up -- an older guy next-door neighbor who ends up, like, falling in love with his neighbor's daughter. So it's about a relationship between like a young girl and her being kind of seduced by the older next-door neighbor.
MS. PENZA: And then they actually --
MS. PENZA: But she actually grows up and then they --
MS. PENZA: -- and then they meet again when she's an adult?
NICOLE: Yes, yeah, yeah. It's a very intense play and I believe Jeff Daniels was playing that lead in that time, but -- yeah, I think so.
MS. PENZA: And Allison bought the tickets for that?
MS. PENZA: So you had tickets for a play?
MS. PENZA: Was this the same time period when you were going to have this conversation with Allison about not wanting to be in DOS?
NICOLE: Yeah, and it was -- the -- the -- one of the harder parts, too, is my mom kept asking me about this like cute guy that I had given my phone number to, and I was like, yeah, but I don't -- yeah, like, I don't know.
It was just so uncomfortable because Allison is sending me these e-mails that are like super intense about what I did wrong, and then my mom is kind of asking me about what's going on and where's -- and then Allison's coming down to meet her. And it -- it -- there was just a lot going on.
MS. PENZA: So around that time, within those couple days, did you end up having a conversation with Allison where you intended to tell her you were going to leave DOS?
MS. PENZA: What happened?
NICOLE: She told me that that wasn't an option, and she told me like did I want to give up my whole career for a boy, and my future and my growth for a boy and -- and that -- like that's not the way this worked, and it was a lifetime commitment and it was like an arranged marriage. And I started crying and she -- she seemed upset, too, but she said that she couldn't let me out no matter how hard I cried because it would show me that I -- if I cried hard enough -- if I cried hard enough I could get out of anything.
MS. PENZA: And in that same -- in that same time period, did Allison have a discussion with you about collateral?
NICOLE: Yeah, she told me that -- like we were driving in her car to, like, find a parking spot in the city and she said she had been really struggling with something and her master had said they were going to release her collateral -- or her sex tape, that particular piece of collateral, if she didn't get her act together and she said she got her act together really quick.
MS. PENZA: At that point, did you know who Allison's master was?
MS. PENZA: Did you eventually come to learn who Allison's master was?
MS. PENZA: Who was it?
MS. PENZA: In that conversation with Allison, did she tell you what she had done to -- what had happened that caused her master to mention releasing the sex tape?
MS. PENZA: After that conversation with Allison about the collateral, and the other conversation you had, did anything change about the way you viewed DOS?
NICOLE: Yeah, it seemed scary now. And I felt like -- like -- it's like I was just starting to feel stronger now, like gotten myself a good job and I just thought, like, what did I do? Like, what did I -- what did I get myself into? What -- what -- what did I do?
MS. PENZA: Now, in terms of the collateral, specifically, did the conversation change what you felt about the collateral?
NICOLE: Yeah. It seemed like somewhere in that mix the collateral went from something that was, like, supposed to be just you won't talk about this and you're just giving me more information to -- so basically, it's like to your -- your word, your commitment to Allison, all of a sudden sealed the collateral. So now if I ever broke that commitment, I was breaking my word, which meant the collateral would be released. And so you were like -- or I was, what? Like what?
MS. PENZA: You were in DOS for a little more than a year after that conversation, is that fair?
MS. PENZA: During that period of time, and after that conversation, what was your -- what were your thoughts about the collateral as you moved forward in DOS?
MS. PENZA: Your Honor, may I have the ELMO just for the witness?
THE COURT: Go ahead.
MS. PENZA: Thank you.
BY MS. PENZA:
MS. PENZA: Nicole, I'm showing you what's marked for identification purposes as Government Exhibit 1357.
Do you see that?
MS. PENZA: And is this an e-mail chain with the subject line: "A rare reflection," and is it between you and Allison ending on March 31st, 2016?
MS. PENZA: Your Honor, the Government offers Government Exhibit 1357 into evidence.
MR. AGNIFILO: We have no objection.
THE COURT: Government Exhibit 1357 is received in evidence.
(Government's Exhibit 1357 was received in evidence.)
THE COURT: You may publish to the jury.
(Exhibit published.)
BY MS. PENZA:
MS. PENZA: So, Nicole, on -- looking at the middle of the top page, you write in your personal journal that you're so happy for being present and loving with your mom and happy that you had a wonderful time together.
And then you go to the middle paragraph and say:
The rest of my life I feel a bit like Alice in Wonderland falling down the rabbit hole. I'm filled with this intense anxiety that everything is moving too quickly around me and that I am losing hold of my life, my ability to choose and think for myself.
And then it goes on to say: But I also realize that I can choose how to look and experience things and then for a bit things feel better and more clear, more vibrant. And then I slip back into the anxiety and I want to run away.
So this e-mail is sent on March 31st, 2016.
Is this after your conversation with Allison about the collateral?
MS. PENZA: And this concept of: But I also realize that I can choose how to look at and experience things, was that a concept that Allison spoke to you about?
MS. PENZA: Can you explain that a little bit?
NICOLE: I mean, it's a theme throughout the entire time I was in -- like, worked with The Source and was also in DOS that, like, you can choose how you look at a situation.
So I could either look at what I was -- what was happening and like my relationship with, like, with Allison as a positive thing or I could choose to experience it as a scary and terrible thing, but it was my choice. So I could choose to suffer or I could choose to make this into something good.
MS. PENZA: And Allison responded to you?
MS. PENZA: And she said: Why are you scaring yourself? I want to remind you that you made a commitment, you can't go back. It's not an option, like an arranged marriage. Why waste time contemplating changing your mind? Take that energy and move into the choice you made. You don't get to question. It's the choice you made. Now, what are you going to do about it? You will find freedom in the commitment you already made. Don't question, it wastes time. Just do.
Is that what she wrote to you?
MS. PENZA: Nicole, within one week of this e-mail, did you get another assignment from Allison?
MS. PENZA: And what was that assignment?
MS. PENZA: At that point, had you ever met Keith Raniere in person?
MS. PENZA: Did Allison explain to you why you were being assigned to reach out to Keith Raniere?
MS. PENZA: Did you find the assignment strange?
NICOLE: I think she said it was my first, like, secret spy assignment to reach out to him. Yeah, I mean -- yes, I found it strange. I didn't really know what to say.
MS. PENZA: This idea of secret spy assignments, was that something that Allison talked to you about?
MS. PENZA: And what was the idea behind that?
NICOLE: I think that, like, you know, it was supposed to be a secret society of like women that were, you know, going to be like empower -- empowering each other to be strong, to then like help -- I don't -- I don't know, help the world.
So there was like a secrecy to it, which like I think is 'cause Allison and I were both actors, it was like secret spy thing.
MS. PENZA: How did you get the defendant's e-mail address?
NICOLE: Well, Allison wouldn't give it to me, so she said I had to find it. So I only really, like, was close to two people that I thought might have it. So I asked Mark and I asked Emi, or Emiliano, for the e-mail address.
MS. PENZA: Who gave it to you?
MS. PENZA: Before giving it to you, did he do anything?
MS. PENZA: May I have the ELMO just for the witness, please?
THE COURT: Yes.
BY MS. PENZA:
MS. PENZA: Nicole, I'm showing you what's marked for identification as Government Exhibit 1271.
Are you familiar with this document?
MS. PENZA: Your Honor, the Government --
MS. PENZA: Is this an e-mail, the first e-mail that you wrote to the defendant?
MS. PENZA: Your Honor, the Government offers Government Exhibit 1271 into evidence.
MR. AGNIFILO: No, objection, Judge.
THE COURT: All right, Government Exhibit 1271 is received in evidence and published to the jury.
(Government's Exhibit 1271 was received in evidence.)
(Exhibit published.)
BY MS. PENZA:
MS. PENZA: Nicole, is this the first e-mail that you wrote to the defendant?
MS. PENZA: And it's from you to KeithRaniere@yahoo.com?
MS. PENZA: And it says: A quick hello, with a smiley face?
MS. PENZA: And did you -- how did you -- I'm sorry.
And it's sent on April 6th, 2016?
MS. PENZA: So that's within one week of the e-mail that we just looked at where Allison said: Why are you scaring yourself?
MS. PENZA: Okay.
(Continued on the following page.)
BY MS. PENZA (Continuing):
MS. PENZA: Now, in this e-mail, is it fair to say you write about The Source?
NICOLE: Yeah. I asked her what I should say to him, like, and she said, I don't know, talk about The Source. Like, he created it, so say, like, thank you for creating it.
And I was like, Okay.
MS. PENZA: And, so, did you follow her directions?
MS. PENZA: Did the Defendant write back to this e-mail?
MS. PENZA: Your Honor, may I have the Elmo again just for the witness?
MS. PENZA: I'll ask you a couple questions first.
After you sent that e-mail, was there -- after you sent that e-mail, was there a new assignment that was given?
Sorry, was there another step to the same assignment?
MS. PENZA: So, the Defendant didn't write back to you.
MS. PENZA: Was Allison asking whether the Defendant had written back to you?
MS. PENZA: Did she seem concerned about it?
NICOLE: Yeah, she just said I had to -- she just kept asking me. And then I think at one point she said I was, like, slow as molasses doing things.
Because I didn't know what to write. He didn't respond, so, like, what was I supposed to do?
MS. PENZA: And at some point close to then, did Allison send you another message about what you should be doing?
NICOLE: Yeah. She said to keep reaching out to him until he responds. And she said: How do you get the attention of the smartest man in the world?
MS. PENZA: I'm showing you what's been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 650.
Are you familiar with this?
MS. PENZA: And is this a screenshot of your Facebook account?
MS. PENZA: And is this a message from Allison Mack on April 16, 2016?
MS. PENZA: Your Honor, the Government offers Government Exhibit 650 into evidence.
MR. AGNIFILO: No objection, Judge.
THE COURT: Government Exhibit 650 is received in evidence and published to the jury.
(Government Exhibit 650 so marked.)
(Exhibit published to the jury.)
MS. PENZA: Nicole, is this the message you were referring to as having received from Allison Mack?
MS. PENZA: And it says: Oh, and if you haven't heard back from Keith before the end of the night, you may wanna reach out again. Continue to pursue until he responds. Stage two of your assignment, how do you get the attention of the smartest man in the world, question mark, question mark. April 16, 2016.
MS. PENZA: Your Honor, I think we should end for the day.
THE COURT: We're going to recess for the night. The witness is excused for the evening.
Do not discuss your testimony with anyone. You may leave now. I'll see you tomorrow morning at 9:30.