5.Sylvie — Redirect/Recross (Part 5)
137 linesREDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. PENZA:
MS. PENZA: Good afternoon, Sylvie.
MS. PENZA: Mr. Agnifilo showed you some screenshots of WhatsApp messages on a cell phone.
MS. PENZA: Had you ever seen those screenshots before?
MS. PENZA: Yes.
MS. PENZA: Do you know where they came from?
MS. PENZA: Do you know where the defendant's phone is?
MS. PENZA: Has anyone from the government ever shown you screenshots from the defendant's phone before?
MS. PENZA: In some of the messages Mr. Agnifilo showed you, you were laying out your schedule for the day; is that right?
MS. PENZA: And can you kind of describe that process within DOS.
SYLVIE: Yeah, it was showing your availability for your master. And like where you were going to be located and you were supposed -- I was told you were meant to share everything, so I would -- that must have been part of what I understood and I can't really remember whether I was supposed to share my location, but maybe I interpreted it that way or I was told that, but I quite often shared where I was and what I was doing.
MS. PENZA: I'm going to show you one of the WhatsApp messages. I think it's still working.
THE COURT: Just tell us what the number is.
MS. PENZA: Mine don't have -- I can give you the date, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Just give the date.
BY MS. PENZA:
MS. PENZA: These are text messages between April 8th -- WhatsApp messages -- or what are purported to be WhatsApp messages between April 8th, 2016 and April 18th, 2016.
MS. PENZA: If you look on the left-hand side, are those all of the messages appear to be one color, do you know what that signifies?
MS. PENZA: And can you tell which person they're from?
SYLVIE: I can't remember which way around it is, like whether those are from me or from him, I'm not sure.
MS. PENZA: Maybe we can look at another one, hang on.
MS. PENZA: Let me show you a different -- so are they always one color, like is the color always consistent?
SYLVIE: Yeah, like, if it's all -- you know, the receiver is always one color and the sender is the other, yeah.
MS. PENZA: Okay. So I'll show you a different one. I'm showing you a screenshot from September 27th, 2016. Can you see it?
MS. PENZA: And can you see that on September 27th, 2016 you write: Good morning, Master. How are you today? I hope you've had a good volley. I'm A.M. I'm off training then to Ethos, then working from home for most of day after. Should be back by 1. XO.
Do you see that?
MS. PENZA: What color is that?
MS. PENZA: But then it's followed by a green message?
MS. PENZA: So the green one then says, Actually it's Grandmaster and important to be conscientious and capitalize.
MS. PENZA: Then you respond and say, I'm sorry, Grandmaster. And you capitalize it there?
MS. PENZA: Then you respond: Be as careful and respectful with your Master, and master is capitalized also?
MS. PENZA: So from this we can agree that your messages are white --
MS. PENZA: -- and to the extent they are the defendant's they're green?
MS. PENZA: So going back to the messages that we were looking at, are all of those in that cream --
MR. AGNIFILO: Your Honor, may we have a sidebar?
(Sidebar conference.)
(Continued on the next page.)
MR. AGNIFILO: She has a Post-it on the exhibit that says deletion. She wants the witness to say there was a deletion because that's the Post-it that's on the exhibit for the witness to see.
MS. PENZA: I can't see it on the screen because we have the screens off so I didn't realize that the Post-it was visible.
THE COURT: All right, let's go back. Keep it off the --
MS. PENZA: Of course yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT: -- exhibit.
MS. PENZA: Thank you.
THE COURT: Thank you.
MR. AGNIFILO: Thank you.
(End of sidebar conference.)
(Continued on the next page.)
(In open court.)
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MS. PENZA:
MS. PENZA: So drawing your attention back to where we were where it it's the row of what you called the cream-colored messages.
MS. PENZA: Are those your?
MS. PENZA: So when we look at the messages, it's April 8th, 2016 and then there is a smiley face and a kiss emoji.
MS. PENZA: Then it just goes straight to April 10th, 2016 and it says: I will work on this. With what I would describe as a blush face emoji.
MS. PENZA: Do you know whether there was anything in between?
SYLVIE: I don't know. I mean by birthday is in between then, but I think it was all me failing to check in or something, I'm not really sure. I'm sorry.
MS. PENZA: But do you know where those communications would have been about what you were working on?
SYLVIE: They must have been in person because they're not in the chat and if he hasn't deleted any messages, which I'm not sure, it doesn't --
MS. PENZA: Do you know whether the defendant deleted any messages?
SYLVIE: He said to me once not to delete the messages but I did delete them anyway 'cause I was worried about people seeing them. So I don't -- sorry to answer your question, no, I have no idea whether he kept them or not. He may have deleted them.
MS. PENZA: And you don't know whether he deleted some and kept some, correct?
MS. PENZA: And then there is another blushy face on April 11th, 2016?
MS. PENZA: And then again it skips to April 12th, 2016 and there is a little blushy face and it says, I will work on this again.
MS. PENZA: And no green messages in between?
MS. PENZA: I'd like to show you one of the messages that is labeled as being July 21st, 2015. How long after your wedding was that?
SYLVIE: We were married on the 1st of July, so that's -- sorry, did you say the 15th, which one did you ask me how long.
MS. PENZA: I was asking how --
MS. PENZA: You wrote: Hello, how are you. Checking in. I've come to New York City for about a week and then will be back in Albany and hopefully with an apartment in or around Knox. I would love to connect and will definitely come to volley.
Then the defendant wrote: Lubing the old joints, question mark.
And you responded: What? Ha. I'm slow on the joke, I don't get it.
And the defendant responded: What sort of machine might need lubrication in the joints and not get human humor? How does this relate to the touring test?
Do you know what the touring test is?
SYLVIE: I think that's thing where -- oh, crap, I can't -- sorry. The touring test was -- the thing where they were seeing how people would respond if they were like -- I don't remember, but it was one of the tests that are taught in ethicist.
MS. PENZA: Do you remember what the general idea was, that test that you're describing?
MS. PENZA: Okay. No problem.
Then you respond: Robot. Thanks. I will work on that. I don't want to be a robot. It pains me to read that. Is that because I came here?
And the defendant responded: I just heard you moved out of Clare's. What you wrote implies that, but you don't say it and it's a big deal.
What was going on there?
SYLVIE: When I moved out of Clare's that was I think what I was referring to yesterday about how when I was in New York City with John and spending more time up there, that's when the conversations would come up about me being a robot or that I wasn't upholding myself and things like that, and this is one of those type of exchanges.
MS. PENZA: I'm going to show you a message from -- these are messages from July 6th, 2016. Can you see them?
MS. PENZA: And there is a series there's I think two nude photos; is that correct?
MS. PENZA: And is it -- am I accurately describing one of the nude photos as angled looking up from where your pelvic area would be and where you can see your pelvic area?
MS. PENZA: It's like angled as if it were looking up towards the pelvic area?
MS. PENZA: And you wrote: Good morning. With a sun emoji. How are you K? What can I be doing differently to graduate to the next stage of journey with this? I would also love to talk to you about a method of earning a more physically intimate relationship with J.
What did that mean?
SYLVIE: With John. I wanted to see what I could do to be allowed to have sex with him I guess is what it looks like I'm saying.
MS. PENZA: Do you have a perspective on the defendant engaging you in a sex act before you were intimate with your husband?
MR. AGNIFILO: Object to the form of the question.
THE COURT: I'll sustain it. Rephrase it please.
MS. PENZA: Yes, Your Honor.
MS. PENZA: Do you have a perspective on why the defendant engaged you in a sex act before then?
SYLVIE: I later -- it made me angry because I later felt like he was somehow claiming ownership over me because I wasn't supposed to have sex with John but he was allowed to do this with me and he was now my Grandmaster, so it triggered a lot of anger in me.
MS. PENZA: How would you describe your marriage before you left Nxivm and after you left Nxivm?
SYLVIE: It is completely different and I think John would say the same thing if he was sitting here, in that we're so much happier, so much closer. Obviously there's no more secrets and I've told him everything that's come out here. He knows about everything and he understands it and he's stuck with me through all of this and so I think closer and better than it ever has been.
MS. PENZA: No further questions.
THE COURT: Anything further?
MR. AGNIFILO: I just have one.
THE COURT: All right.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: So Keith told you not to delete any of the messages?
MR. AGNIFILO: I have nothing else.
THE COURT: Anything else?
MS. PENZA: No, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Very well. The witness is excused.
You may stand down.
THE COURT: You're welcome.
(Whereupon the witness was excused.)
MR. LESKO: Your Honor, may we have a brief sidebar.
THE COURT: Yes, of course.