2.Daniela — Direct (Recall, Part 1)

DANIELA: Yes. It was completely different and this is something that I felt very, that angered me, it very much angered me because I thought it was unfair. I thought -- I was completely isolated, completely isolated. And, you know, the excuse had been she would go into that, into that room and do what I was doing and this was supposed to help me -- I'm not sure how -- but she had constant companionship.

So I used to hear, you know, people. That was the only full bathroom in the house. I think Cami was downstairs so she would go and shower and see, like, just simple act of seeing my mom, but they would chat. I could hear the voices. My father would go upstairs, have a meal with her. So it seemed to me she was geographically constrained to that room like I, that I could hear. I never heard her come out. But she saw people all the time, talked to people all the time, had things.

DANIELA: It made me -- it was very complicated, a complicated emotion. I remember, I remember Cami was babysitting Gaelyn and I could hear the voice of the child playing with my mom and Cami upstairs and I hated them. I hated them but I also loved being able to hear them but I hated them. I hated them. They were right there having fun, living, and it was hard. It was, it was very difficult. It felt very unfair.

I was very angry because -- I mean, part of the reason -- I mean, my mom said she was going to do exactly what I was going to say and here I was going through this completely alone. Nobody would visit me, nothing was happening, I had all of this going on, and there's, like, a full life next to me.

So it, it was complicated. I didn't have -- I liked listening to those noises in a way that made me happy. Being able to hear the laughter and the noise and their voices, that was, like, a small pleasure, but it made me very angry.

DANIELA: Yes. So, I remember -- I remember when my mom -- when this happened with this man that died, I remember my mom -- I remember my mom. She looked very different and she looked older. She was beautiful and I remember she grabbed me by my face like this and looked into my eyes and said, "You are ready. I can see it in your eyes that you're different and you're ready," and I remember looking at her and thinking, I'm going to come out. She can see it, I'm going to come out.

So I remember being excited about that and she left for the funeral and I remember sitting there thing thinking any day she's going to come back and she's going to get me because she saw it and I'm ready and I'm going to come out. And my mom -- I remember my mom came back, but my mom came back to get her stuff. So my mom came back from, I guess, the funeral, and she wasn't going back in the room.

DANIELA: It was -- I remember -- I think it was Lauren -- I mean, Lauren was the only one I talked to, telling me that -- that my mother leaving and not wanting to go back into the room was part of my ethical breach and that me convincing her to go back in the room would be a way for me to heal my breach and I remember I saw Cami because they also recruited Cami and we EM'd with my mother together. Cami and I -- I remember sitting with my legs crossed in my room. I could not come out of my room, talking to my mom trying to convince her to stay in the most horrible way. I remember I was just happy to see them and I remember thinking if I can do this and she can do the right thing or they think I can do the right thing we can both just come out because we're done, right? We're done. It's going to be --

I remember thinking it was the last -- and I don't remember how long I had been there at that point, but it had been a long time and I thought it was, like, I thought it would be the end. But, you know, it was supposed to be like I was -- I was fixated on I had to fix my mom now because that was also my ethical breach now and my mom -- my mom did not -- my mom did not give in. My mom did not want to -- my mom didn't want to go back in the room.

DANIELA: It's completely different. I mean, the only thing that is the same about that is going in Mexico, but they were very clear it was not going to Mexico on my terms, which to me was, okay, so I'm illegal, so drive me where I need to go because I can't. Give me some money, set me up, I need my ID, I need my things. I need my life in Mexico, to start a life in Mexico.

What would happen to me if I came out of the room or if I stopped writing is they would send me back to Mexico without any money, without any papers -- nothing, with nothing. So -- with nothing.

DANIELA: Well, aside from maybe the softer blow of losing absolutely all of my life and my family, I was also very afraid of -- in the -- I hadn't been to Mexico in close to a decade, seven years, eight years? Even what was going on at the time around me, I wasn't involved in it, but it was like antiviolence movement that were happening in ESP because Mexico was such a violent place and a violent country so I was afraid. I was going to go to Mexico all by myself. I never have really been all by myself with nothing and Mexico it was really -- it was truly violent at the time, especially the north of the country where I'm from. It was kidnapping and murders and drug wars. It was truly violent.

So I was afraid of going to this place, this dangerous place, all by myself, could not contact anybody. I would have no help, I would have no money, I would have none of my papers, none of my things. It was the end of the world.

DANIELA: Yes. I was -- I mean, I was very paranoid and I think justifiably so. At the time I fully believed and understood that I could be stopped at any time and my papers would be requested of me and that if I didn't have them and I didn't have them, I would end up in jail. And this is something that -- I mean, this was very -- it was aggravated with time because I was fully illegal, but even when my status was still good, I was very respectful of the immigration system in the U.S. It's always been something --

I mean, maybe for an American, but I think that -- I mean for any foreigner in the U.S., in particular with my experiences, even before being out of status of how strict the immigration system is, of how vigilant the U.S. system is of -- of people and even when you are on status that you are up-to-date, that you are up to rule.

And even the way I was treated at the border, it's very -- it's very strong. It's very rough. So, I -- I think I said it before, like even seeing the lights in a cop car would make me jump. It was something I was extremely aware of and I was very afraid of being caught.

DANIELA: "With love"? Yes. I -- yes. And at times I think also elaborated on the love and what I wanted to feel for him or what I feel for him. This is all a continuation. The time in the room and what I was doing in the room is not an isolated -- it's not an isolated situation. It's a continuation of everything that has happened before, including the falling out, including all the time he wrote to me and I wrote back and all the instructions I received there and all the beatings I received there and then the even more stricter part of the program, where I was like beaten up with all of these concepts and all of that, going into the room even without any further input, that's the only thing that I know that he expects of me. I quite clearly know he expected it of me because he has distinctly written to me, you need to feel love for me. I need to be your whole life. You need to tell me your fantasies and every detail. You need to tell me all the disclosure. And a lot of it must be rehashing of things that happened and things -- how many different ways can I stay I love you and, really, I ran out of material very fast because I was completely isolated.

He told me, I need to be your whole life. You need to think about me in this way and only me. So as I'm sitting there in that room completely alone, trying to figure out what to do to fix my breach to get out and I'm just going over all of those things over and over and just trying to find the combination of words that is the correct combination of words that is healing my breach.

DANIELA: So, I wasn't able to talk to him at all. They drive me back to the house. I don't remember who. I think it was my brother. I don't remember. And -- but I had made the decision and, so, I think over the next day or couple of days there were arrangements made and I was just waiting because I needed to figure out how they were going to, you know, get me back. And I was not -- I really didn't have any say in that.

So all I was allowed to do is pack a few things and they weren't really my things because I didn't have access to my things, but in a little backpack. I put some clothes. I grabbed my journal and that was just -- and they -- I was told -- I remember, I -- I was downstairs and Cami was crying. I hadn't seen her in a long time and -- I mean, all of that time. And I think Lauren was there. It's all really fuzzy. It's all hazy that time. And Kristin was there and I had known Kristen an even longer time and it was explained to me, my father and Kristin would drive me to the border and -- and that would be it.

DANIELA: I took with me -- I remember taking with me some, like -- like I didn't own a lot, but some jewelry that I had, like some earrings or something because I was thinking -- then I started thinking. Oh my God, how am I going to survive? What's going to happen? So the shock did not wear off but I was thinking oh my God -- now I'm like, oh my God. I'm allergic to most metals except gold. So I thought, okay, so I'll pawn it. This is money and I was trying to think of what -- of what -- of what I was going to be doing.

I remember going into my dad's wallet and taking some money and thinking as soon as I get to Mexico I'll work and I'll repay him, but I need to have something, so I'm not without a cent in Mexico.

DANIELA: I wasn't there to exercise. I went there to sit on the treadmill and watch the news. You know, I just wanted to know what was going on. It felt so -- it was like a violent -- all of a sudden it's the real world and everything happened, is going, you know, without me. And all of a sudden, I'm introduced to like -- and there's so much going on. I wanted to know. So I remember doing that. I'm going to go to the gym and exercise, whatever. I didn't know even like, you know -- and I remember just sitting on the treadmill looking at the news.

And I also went to the -- like they have like a work center, as they do in some of the business hotels. And I was Googling and I was Googling. And I Googled where I was going to go. I was Googling. And I remember I Googled safest city in Mexico, because I was so afraid that, you know, I wanted to go somewhere safe. I wasn't allowed to go to my hometown or anywhere anybody knew me. And I was very afraid. So I remember I looked that up and there was like a top five and I picked the top one. And after I picked that top one, I started like looking -- went to that place to see. I didn't know how much the pesos were worth. I didn't know how much it was going to be. I had no idea. Like my sense of, like, the money, or whatever. So I was -- I looked up really quickly to see what I was going to -- you know, once I was there, I was, you know, on my own, you know. So I remember doing that. I don't remember what else I looked up.

And I also remember it was at that hotel I think I remember -- I felt -- I remember like Kristin wouldn't let me have alone time with my dad. Like, I remember, like, I wanted to stay with my dad and hug him and, like, spend time with him, you know. I was so happy. I was -- I mean, happiness is a weird description of that, but I liked seeing him in the middle of everything that was going on, you know, and I wanted to -- and I don't think -- I remember wanting to stay in the same room as him. I don't think I was allowed to do that.

And I remember -- I remember at some point -- I think it was about as we were about to, like, go out of the hotel, I had this like feeling of I don't -- I don't want to do things wrong and telling my dad that, you know, I took some money from you, I just am really scared, I'm really sorry. And I gave him back the money. And I think I had the PSP with me and I was, like, hiding it, like, I wanted to have it. And I think I gave it back then. And I just wanted to be clean. I just wanted to be clean. And I remember doing that.

DANIELA: At some point during the trip it was revealed to me, because it wasn't a surprised, there was going to be someone waiting for me at the other side of the border and that other person was my father's accountant. And he was going to be there because it was very violent in Mexico. And, indeed, it was very dangerous. So -- especially the northern area. And I was able to observe it, because it was desolate and there were like bullet marks all across the highway, like, along the highway, and it was completely empty. So I believe my father arranged that so I wouldn't go through that period of very dangerous -- you know -- that trek of very dangerous highway alone or -- I don't know. I considered it an act of kindness.

So he was going to -- before I crossed the border, I did have a moment with my dad.

DANIELA: It was 1,500 pesos. And he gave me his watch and he cried and I cried. And he said, "Please do everything you need to do to get back to us. It's going to be hard, but you can do it. Please do everything you need to do to get back to us." And it felt -- it was so beautiful, because it felt real.

And after that, I walked across the border and this accountant person received me and got in the car. I don't remember talking to him about anything. And we drove and drove. And I remember driving past Monterey, which is like the first major city to cross. I remember details about Monterey. I don't remember if we stopped there or not. I also remember driving past my hometown.

DANIELA: School, yes. So, I'm somewhat familiar with the city and streets.

I remember driving past my hometown and the highway goes past my hometown. I could see my childhood home from afar. I remember it felt very weird, like a different world and we just drove right past it. I wasn't allowed to see anybody or be anywhere where people knew me.

And he dropped me off in the capital of that state, of my home state. And he bought a ticket to where I wanted to go, which was the south of the country. So the remaining of the trip was going to be also a few days by bus. So he bought a one-way ticket for me from the capital of the state to the city where I was heading to and that was it.

DANIELA: I mean, I was in -- when I arrived, I wasted no time. I mean, I wasted no time. There was a wonderful of part of being in the outside world and the sensation. It felt really overwhelming, like, all of a sudden, like, a whole wide open world. It was frightening at the same time. I wasted no time.

As soon as I got off the busy, I asked someone to direct me where the center of the town was, like the main plaza, and I went there. And I started asking where are some hostels that I -- because I needed to figure out, okay, so what am I doing tonight, I need to settle, I need to get the newspaper, I need to look for a job, I need to look for a place to live. I wasted no time.

So I just went there. I remember I ran in -- I met one man who was very kind to me and, like, he said, you know, this is a good hostel to stay at. It was a very safe city, by the way. And I said, well, what can I -- like, is there a pawn shop? And he guided me through it, took me there, a very nice guy.

And that first day I was sleeping at a hostel and I was getting ready to, you know, go and look for a job the next day first thing in the morning.

DANIELA: I can use Office, Word Excel, PowerPoint. I remember, you know -- I mean, I wasn't looking for anything high level. I was looking for --I went to hotels to be like a cleaning staff. I was, you know -- I was looking for -- because I didn't have -- I didn't have an education, one; and second, I didn't have papers. So, even in Mexico, to find a formal job, like everybody's going to ask for a list of, you know, your ID, your -- you know -- your official ID in Mexico is an IFE, back then INE -- and a list of requirements. You have to have that. How is someone going to hire you? They don't know who you are. They can't check on you.

So, I was looking for a very basic jobs that would make me money like right away. Like I couldn't wait for a long interview process, nor did I think I was qualified for any of those jobs. So there was, like, the annual carnival at the time in that town, which made it very difficult because the whole downtown was closed during the day and the carnival was going on. So, I ended up going to malls and finding anything that was opened. I would give them my job application. They would look at it. A lot of them would say no, no, but you can leave us the application in case we need someone. I would say no, no, can I have my application back because I need to reuse it. I didn't have a lot of them. I had like three or four, you know. I was just asking for a job.

Even if there were no vacancies, I was just going -- I ended up going to stand to stand at the malls just, you know, asking do you need some help? Do you need this? Is there anything I can do? Do you have a job?

And I ended up finding a job.

DANIELA: At a computer store, a store that sold computers. And I got really lucky because the owner -- and I was very honest. I was very -- every time I say the only -- I don't have ID and I'm looking for something temporary. So it was a hard sell, I think. But I wanted to be very straightforward. And this man told me, oh, it must be my lucky day, because his main person who was like the main cashier, she was on leave because she was pregnant, so she had something -- he said he had something temporary and when can you start? I can start tomorrow. So I started work within a few days.

After I found a job, then I was looking for a place to stay that was nearby. And also within a few days I found this place. I would look for a room, not an apartment, because I also didn't want to be alone. I was scared. I thought even though I found out this was a very safe place, I felt very unsafe. So there were these ads that were for like a room. In Mexico, they tend to specify, I don't know if here, if it's for a man or a woman. And, so, I would look for those. And I ended up staying at a house with a very nice lady was living with her three sons and they had the main room that they were renting out and I stayed there and I felt very safe. I -- she shared some of the food she was preparing. They treated me like I was -- you know, they took me in a way. So, it was a fast transition.

DANIELA: At the library -- well, everything -- everything was hard because I didn't have an ID for anything and I didn't have, like, at that time a place to live. So you need to -- you need proof of address, you know, the usual, whatever a normal person has. So even getting a library card was hard. And the person in charge of the library actually ended up -- he told me you need a guarantor, a guarantor, like someone who will sign for you, like, usually it's like -- so you don't take the books. And I remember telling him I didn't have that and I didn't have an ID. And he said I'll sign for you, not enough people read these days. And he gave me a card and I was able to get books.

So things were going well for me, I think. And I wasn't -- I wasn't writing and I wasn't doing book reports because I didn't have a computer, so for me to even like get on a computer, I needed to go to a cyber cafe and pay per the hour. And I didn't have money and I couldn't spend money. I was busy surviving and trying to survive. You know, I didn't have anything. And I needed my papers to even be able to start building what I needed to build in order to do the things they had told me I needed to do and they had given me deadlines. There was some number of months' deadline to get my visa, which was insane, you know. But I felt -- you know, even that last interaction with my father where I felt again the pool of my family of please get back to us. You know, like -- so, I think I wanted to, but most of the time I just couldn't.

DANIELA: Yes. So I had that job at the computer store. Then I was an English language teacher for a special emergent program for, pilot program, for the Secretary of Education, so for a public school. So, like, first, second, and third grade of elementary school, I was a teacher there.

I worked as a manager at a restaurant and a bar. I organized events. I was doing websites and fixing websites for people, setting up WiFi networks and printing networks.

I think that at some point I had four jobs at the same time and I was just, you know, trying to save, trying to make sure I was stable. I always was panicking not to have enough money. So I was just hoarding the money.

In Mexico, the first job I had, it paid less than 4,000 pesos a month. That's about $200 a month.

DANIELA: Yes. So I had tried to get my birth certificate, but because I was living in a different state, you could only get your birth certificate in the state that you were born in, like you have to go there to the civil registry and you get your birth certificate. And there's a service for foreigners, for people who are living far away, but it was extremely expensive. I remember it was more than 5,000 pesos. So I didn't have money to get that.

So, at some point -- another one of my jobs, I was a tennis teacher, so, like, a tennis -- you know, that gives lessons to kids. And I was teaching these kids, and their mother, I became friends with their mother and I actually started teaching them English too, like, by the hour. So I was a tutor. And this woman, she was a lawyer with the Human Rights Commission and we became friends. And in one of our conversations, I told her, you know, just in passing, you know, that I was struggling because, you know, I didn't have papers. And she said having an identity is a human right. I will get you your birth certificate. And through the Human Rights Commission, I got my birth certificate for free.

DANIELA: My day-to-day is I mostly work at the factory so I get to travel to different parts of the world, Hong Kong, Italy, to different shows related to the industry. I start early in the morning, I supervise the entire factory and the entire production. We are dedicated to import/export, so it's hectic and it's a lot of work but it's, it's very exciting work. It's a full day, but I have a great team and they do a great job and I very much enjoy working with my people, my community.

I think at some point, I realized that I was not going to change the world and that was a sad thing, that was a very real thing. I had childish dreams to change the world and do something really important and now I feel I have -- my domain in the world is smaller but it's big enough for me. I have 250 families who depend on me and I'm very proud to do that work.

DANIELA: When I left the U.S., when I escaped the room, obviously, it's a before and after, and it was a huge decision but it by no means stopped everything, wiped everything inside me, wiped the abuse, wiped the manipulation and made me new. That's not how it worked, that's not how it worked with me. That's also how -- I don't think human nature is like that. So even after I left, all of this, all of the beatings, all of it was still inside of me. I mean, all of it remained with me.

My circumstances had changed and I tried to make the best of that but all of that, all of the expectations, all of beatings, all of the, I'm a monster, I'm all these things, those continued with me and as I spent more and more time in the real world, they, I wouldn't say faded, but as I built a world for myself, as I had friends, as I had a job, as I had an identity, that was huge, as I had a boyfriend and I loved him and he loved me back, as I had all these things, as I built a world, it was only after that that I was able to look back and look at the world I had been and realized the monstrosity that this happened but it wasn't immediate.

So a lot of the things -- it took years. It really was a long process of rebuilding every part of my existence that had been destroyed. So the way I see it is like residual damage, you know, that stayed with me. Still in my head, oh, I need to fix it, still in my head, oh, I still owe them, and still in my head, oh, I did something bad. And with time, it went away but it wasn't immediate. So that writing, that's how I understand it.

DANIELA: My mother found me so she found out where I was living through the maid, my father's maid. She got my information and she went looking for me and I didn't want to see her. I was trying to build my new world and I hated her. I did not want her.

So, the first visit was horrible and I remember screaming at her, You left me, you didn't come, you didn't get me, you didn't come and get me, and I remember letting it all out. I remember her just taking it and apologizing. That was the first visit. Very similar, the second. She was living in Mexico City at the time so she would come visit for days and I didn't even like that. I felt like she was contaminating my brand new world. You know, she was part of that -- I didn't even want to think about that. Like I remember, I didn't want to think about it. It's not something I wanted to be thinking of. But it took, like, three visits and, I mean, a mother is a mother and, eventually, I was just happy to have my mom and we talked things out and I could understand what she had done and she's human just like me.

DANIELA: Completely, but I was thrilled. I mean, that was fantastic. I wanted to see him. Of course, I wanted to see them. I wanted to see both of them.

So they made plans and they're like, Oh, we're going to go there, and they went to visit me and they were in my hometown. They didn't stay at my place. They didn't even ask which is weird because we're family. They stayed at some hotel and they arrived and it was a bizarre experience. I mean, all of this is a bizarre experience and, obviously, we're a very dysfunctional family after ESP and Keith, but, you know, it was, "Oh, the weather is so nice here" or my sister, "Oh, look at my new designer something-something," and it was all, like -- like, there was not a word about what had happened. And I was -- I wasn't going to touch it, you know, because, like, they were there and I was happy to see them and I wasn't going to risk them. All I wanted was that contact.

But I remember I took them to visit, to tour my factory. My father took some interest in it. My sister Marianna said she was tired and slept at the front office the entire time. So there was no interest in my life. We visited a museum. It was an odd visit, to say the least.

DANIELA: Yes. I was working at a boutique hotel, I was the manager of the restaurant, and part of the wedding party was going to stay there and they were going to have some sort of a reception there. My luck. And one day, like, I'm managing the restaurant, you know, doing my thing, and, "Oh, my God, Emiliano." And he has, like, a famous wife or he was going to get married to a famous person and there was a celebrity and as soon as I hear the name, I just want, I just wanted to disappear. So this was, like, before the wedding. They were planning and they were doing -- they were there with the wedding planner. And so I saw him. I had a brief interaction with him and the other NXIVM that was there. And then I don't remember how, I don't know if I contacted her or she contacted me, but I ended up seeing Lauren when the wedding actually happened.

Because -- a few weeks later, the wedding actually happened and I read from the news, like, the local news that all of, like, the people for, high-ranking people from ESP were there. Like, there were pictures in my city that I escaped to. And I ended up meeting with Lauren. I remember it was a bizarre experience. I remember being -- and the fountain in front of the hotel I worked in which was, like, two worlds clashing, just they do not belong together, my brand new beautiful world and, like, this old thing. And I remember it being this old thing, like, you know, how are you doing in your program and how you have to fix things. I remember just listening. I don't remember all the details. I'm, like, I'm busy living. You know, I don't know exactly what went on there, but I remember there was an interaction. I don't think I followed up very much on it. At least I don't remember. And I remember having seen Nancy Salzman and Adriana Nino, I remember, of ESP from Mexico from afar, like, walking by.

And a few days after the wedding, I was walking with my best friend on the main avenue of the city I live in and I ran into the Mexican contingent of the ESP, Loreta and I think it was Omar Boone, and it was another bizarre experience. I was just, it was just late at night, I think, on a weekend walking to a coffee shop with my best friend and there they were, like, everybody I had known from my past life, my horrible past life. And I remember, that was a bit more casual. I had a little bit of fun with it. Oh, hi, how are you doing? We haven't seen you for a long time. I was, like, Oh, just hanging out.

DANIELA: Well, first of all, even sending her the card was difficult because she wouldn't tell me where she lived so I wasn't able to -- I was going to Fed Ex it overnight and she just wouldn't tell me where she lived and I never found out where she lived. I had to send it to a friend of hers, that she gave me her address and she was going to intercept it.

And she -- we started, the communication increased so that we actually would have conversations and I would be on the phone with her for hours. And I could tell that she was having emotional ups and downs, and I knew from before that she had downs, so I would ask her about that and I would ask her about how she was doing. We spoke about her job, about how much she was being paid. She thought it was unfair the way they were paying her and how much, the things that she was allowed to do, not to do with regard to her job in Rainbow as an MDS. She didn't think she was receiving enough. She was doing too much. And then I remember she was going to go to V Week and was in charge of a big project, but they had only given her, like, the exchange of going to V Week as payment. We talked about that and she wasn't happy about it.

DANIELA: Really fearful, I mean, the fact that she had to hide them. And there was a point in the text exchange, it was, like, Keith walked in but he didn't notice, you know, something like that. And I, I don't know, maybe it was irrational but I was frightened that something might happen to her, that they might make her disappear or she would be put in the room and disappear out of my site.

So at some point we came up -- I told her, I'm concerned about you, you're illegally in the country, not doing great, so if I text you and you don't text me back in eight hours -- and this is word on words -- I will go full psycho on them. And that meant, I mean, I wasn't going to be able to go to the country, but I would send people, I would go and search for her and get her, because there were times where she wouldn't answer the phone for the entire day. Then she would finally answer and say, I'm just having a really rough day, and I knew what that meant.

So I was very, very afraid that in the middle of all this media that was being focused on NXIVM, they might hide her in an effort to, you know -- I saw her as a liability. She was a liability. Hide her and, like, do something with her where I wouldn't be able to reach her.